PBEM - Japanese Player Setting HQ Ojectives

[Capt Cliff]

Question! When playing by e-mail should there be a house rule that forces the Japanese player to assign targets for his HQ's? I would say that the first three months of the war are preplanned but after March of 42' the Japanese player should assign targets/objectives to his HQ's. Another fine point is that once the target has been assigned he should wait a month before he executes the attack, simulate gathering supplys, men and ships. Without this it makes the SIGNIT button useless! Starting in 44' the Japanese player can stop. The US's code breaking was a huge factor in the Europe first policy. Midway may have been fought off of San Fransico Bay if the US did not have the code breakers!

[Klondike]

I believe that PBEM games are meant to show an alternative history..Thats the whole point of a PBEM game as far as I'm concerned..I use SigInt for the following reasons..
A:To see what land forces are on the base I am going to attack..If they are too strong I pick an alternative base to attack..
B: To see where a Japanese HQ is located, That way if it is nearby I can chose to invade and hopefully capture the base where the HQ is located in my intial landings thereby eliminating the HQ..
C: If I can see Japanese Task Forces assembling it is possible to find out thier destination..I have had some wicked battles with this one (Not all that were succesful either lol)
The whole point being is SigInt is only as good as what you use it for..

[Capt. Harlock]

A Human Japanese play er is supposed to be less predictable: that's what makes it more interesting. But if you really need a clue, you can often find the destination of individual TF's if you use SIGINT on them.

[strawbuk]

Actually I;m desperate to find away to have the PH raid happen BUT allows me to redirect the use of army forces in SRA. The AI for the 'historic first turn - Yes' option does an ok job but then then they are all out of position and scattered if you have cunning plans eg 'Australia first' or 'I fancy a Hawaiian grass skirt' or 'Drive south until you see ice'.


Selecting 'no' to historic first turn means that you need to find other way to sink a few BBs, as well as all those allied CVs, and allies have chance to pull out deent aussies form singapore etc.

Any ideas?

[cgray]

I have not tried this yet, but don't see why it shouldn't work.
I've played Gary's CARRIERS game for years and the opening interface is the same

The problem (if I understand): Pearl is too far from Japan to attack on turn one (Dec. 7) when set to No Histroical First Turn.

Make a house rule that Japan has Dec 7 to position his units (NO ATTACKS on foriegn held bases.) and the Allied player does nothing except change all HQ's to full human control -- otherwise the AI will probably do something. Changes to factory production would probably be OK too, maybe not.

Then turn 2 (Dec. 14) Japan can make those attacks on Pearl and any other targets (Maybe some like West Coast or Aussie could be agreed to be off limits -- or maybe THIS IS WAR and its all fair game!!!) and again the Allied player does nothing.

This would preserve the "surprise" nature of the first wave of attacks and give Japan set to No Historical FIrst Turn the time too position secretly -- just as the real IJN. It effectively makes the war start Dec 14, but the one week won't really matter with the way this game is constucted.

You should also be able to do it in an AI game by setting to BOTH for the first two and a half turns. Japan goes first (remember no attacks), then set Allied HQ's to full human (got to stop the AI from acting) and executing. Do Japan turn two, pass through the Allied turn again and execute. Then Japan turn three.

REMEMBER: Return the HQ's to computer control. Enter Allied turn three and set all the HQ's back to full computer control. (This may not be necessary but it can't hurt.) DO NOT execute, but save the file now.

Here's the trick -- Restart the game from the saved file and select ALLIED COMPUTER and the desired help level. (This information is not saved in the game file.) The game should start with the ALLIED turn. Might have to manually END TURN for the computer the first turn (the file was saved at that point) but the AI will then make its calculations and moves.

You can choose to play the other side if you want and defend as the Allied player against your own best opening. Just save that opening as a seperate file from the active game file.

If anyone gives it a go, let us know.

[Capt. Harlock]

Make a house rule that Japan has Dec 7 to position his units (NO ATTACKS on foriegn held bases.) and the Allied player does nothing except change all HQ's to full human control -- otherwise the AI will probably do something. Changes to factory production would probably be OK too, maybe not.

This seems a little unfair to the Allies. If the Japanese can move units around, then the Allies should be able to as well. Remember that without the historical first turn, there is often a carrier or two in Pearl Harbor. Why give the Japanese a freebie? Perhaps there can be a rule that no BB's can be moved, and no troops can be evacuated from forward bases.

As for the aircraft factories, remember that factory control is independent of the HQ's. Unless you toggle to "Human Factory Control" (the Alt-N hotkey), the AI is very likely to make changes.

[cgray]

This seems a little unfair to the Allies. If the Japanese can move units around, then the Allies should be able to as well.

It is very unfair to the Japanese to allow the Allied player to move with knowledge that attacks will occur.

Even on the morning of Dec 7, 1941 the Allies had no clue the Japanese were about to attack. Yes, the Japanese were making aggressive moves around the Asian/Pacific area, but few thought they were about to attack the Allies. The surprise was not where, but the very fact that they did attack. They could have attacked on a larger scale, or with a different list of targets.

It's not like a surprise birthday party where you have to pretend to be duped but already know, and can plan for the rest of your evening after the party ends at 8:30.

Remember that without the historical first turn, there is often a carrier or two in Pearl Harbor.

Naval commanders in Pearl coud have just as easily had the carriers in port as out doing training excercises. If the AI puts carriers in Pearl, I think this simulates the oblivious nature of the commanders just before the attack.

Why give the Japanese a freebie? Perhaps there can be a rule that no BB's can be moved, and no troops can be evacuated from forward bases.

Why give the Allies a freebie? Making a rule that these units can move but not those gives the Allies a big advantage. The whole point is that the Japanese did get a freebie. "They attacked without warning and without provocation." If the Allies get a chance to move, then they are forwarned, and can take provocative positions. It also gives the Allies a chance to reinforce.

Either it is a surprise or not.

As for the aircraft factories, remember that factory control is independent of the HQ's. Unless you toggle to "Human Factory Control" (the Alt-N hotkey), the AI is very likely to make changes.

Good point. Forgot about that. Don't forget to set them back when you return the HQ to computer control. (Again, the return to computer control is probably irrelevant when you re-start the game with a computer opponent, but just to be on the safe side...)

Well strawbuk I hope this gives you the ability to play your alternative history. In the end you have to make your own house rules. No opinion is difinitive.

[Capt. Harlock]

It is very unfair to the Japanese to allow the Allied player to move with knowledge that attacks will occur.

Even on the morning of Dec 7, 1941 the Allies had no clue the Japanese were about to attack. Yes, the Japanese were making aggressive moves around the Asian/Pacific area, but few thought they were about to attack the Allies. The surprise was not where, but the very fact that they did attack.

That is not correct, I'm afraid. After the breakdown of negotiations, the Americans knew quite well that war was coming. They didn't know exactly when or where. The British, however, knew as soon as the Japanese troop convoys were at sea. They just didn't have troops or aircraft capable of dealing with the threat.

Remember, Pacific War covers an immense amount of territory. To freeze the entire theatre just to get results at Pearl Harbor generates way more problems than it solves.