Combat Summary oddity and playback?

[MadDawg]

Hi All,

Another couple of questions...[:)]

I was just watching an air to air battle in which I had 7 Nells attacking a base. Whilst watching it I saw 2 shot down by aircraft and none lost to flak, yet the end of combat report said that I had lost 5. Now, I realise that there is some Fog of War in play here for pilots overestimating kills, etc, but why does the actual combat not corrospond to the visual playback? I would think that these two should both show the same results, even if that result is incorrect?

Secondly, do both players see exactly the same playback? If so, is there any was I can see my actual looses for my side in a particular air to air engagement without the other players fog of war applied? I know that there is an overall summary but in the larger campaigns this is no help to calculate losses in a particular battle. It seems a little odd that I am having FOW applied to the looses I take...surely my guys can add up the difference between the planes that left and those that returned to give me an actual amount lost during the battle? [:)]

Dawg

[Caltone]

Both players watch the same replay so there's FOW in it. Same system in place for games vs AI. Just have to imagine you're 1000's of miles from this battle and reports are going to have some innaccuracies.

Just keep any eye on the airgroups involved each turn and of course the summaries in the intelligence reports like you mentioned.

[MadDawg]

Understood and that was acceptable enough in UV, but in the larger campaigns in WITP it is now next to impossibe to track air to air losses for each battle with any sort of accuracy [:)].

I was really hoping that in WITP both players would actually watch different combat playbacks to be honest. Apart from the above reason its also unfortunate that I always know when the other side has spotted one of my task forces in one manner or another, allowing me to break off an attack I may otherwise procees with. I wouldnt think it would be too complex to have each side viewing a unique playback...

Dawg

[Xargun]

ORIGINAL: MadDawg

Understood and that was acceptable enough in UV, but in the larger campaigns in WITP it is now next to impossibe to track air to air losses for each battle with any sort of accuracy [:)].

I was really hoping that in WITP both players would actually watch different combat playbacks to be honest. Apart from the above reason its also unfortunate that I always know when the other side has spotted one of my task forces in one manner or another, allowing me to break off an attack I may otherwise procees with. I wouldnt think it would be too complex to have each side viewing a unique playback...

Dawg

You must remember that any large warship has the ability to detect radio signals from nearby sources - expecially aircraft thousands of feet in the air... When you PBY sees my IJN Fleet and radios back in, I may not know what he says, but I know someone just transmitted nearby and can react accordingly.. Plus your CAP may spot the plane and possibly even shoot it down...

Xargun

[MadDawg]

True, but not all ships, such as AP's, would necessarily have the ability or know how to do so. I certainly dont mind it being a possability but it would be nice if it wasnt a certainty just to add another element to the FOW, particually as some subs now have search aircraft and instantly give away their positions when they do their job. I guess its just something that has kinda bugged me since UV I was hoping would change [:)].

Anyways, anyone have any thoughts on my first question or have noticed it happening themselves? I am kinda wondering if its a little bug as Ive seen it a few times now.

Dawg

[Arnir]

I don't know the answer to the first question, but I wonder if it represents aircraft that were damaged, etc. and lost on the return trip?

[MadDawg]

Possibly! [:)]

If so I think this is different from UV though, as Im pretty sure the combat playback and report use to show the same result.

Dawg

[Charles2222]

I'n unfamiliar with UV, but I am familiar with PW and BTR. One small thign I don't get though, which is similar to this concern posted here. Let's say 3 Mohawks intercept my bombing run which has 30 Zeroes.

The 30 Zeroes shoot them all down, yet, as I've seen at least one time, the Mohawks keep attacking and the Zeroes keep defending, as though there are more aircraft to shoot down. Now, maybe the shown a/c are the only ones undamaged and that would account for this, but if it's a matter of there were 3 Mohawks at first, and then another 6 joined in later, why wouldn't the total of the Mohawks roll back to 6 again and not still show zero? It may be a small matter of the total of a/c not being correct from the start or a matter of the total not updatuing after the initial wave is eliminated. Any ideas?

[Mr.Frag]

FoW ... They didn't really get shot down or they were shot down but are still attacking ... works both ways [;)]

[Charles2222]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

FoW ... They didn't really get shot down or they were shot down but are still attacking ... works both ways [;)]

So this is to say that the total starting off were all absolutely correct (no FOW), and that there weren't any that joined into the battle? I recall all damaged a/c in BTR returned to base immediately (of course in this game they might appear to be damaged when they are not due to FOW).

[MadDawg]

Frag, I think that answered Charles question but could you check out my first one above? [:)]

What I am seeing is the actual air to air combat 'movie' differing from the combat report given at the end of this battle. As I mentioned i counted 2 Nells shot down yet had 5 reported. Im UV I am pretty sure that these two things showed the same (albeit incorrect due to FOW) results, and Im wondering if this is a little ug of sorts?

As Ive seen it a few times I thought I should check as it seems a little odd....I may even have a PBEM containing this oddity here somewhere if it helps.

Dawg

[Charles2222]

ORIGINAL: MadDawg

Frag, I think that answered Charles question but could you check out my first one above? [:)]

What I am seeing is the actual air to air combat 'movie' differing from the combat report given at the end of this battle. As I mentioned i counted 2 Nells shot down yet had 5 reported. Im UV I am pretty sure that these two things showed the same (albeit incorrect due to FOW) results, and Im wondering if this is a little ug of sorts?

As Ive seen it a few times I thought I should check as it seems a little odd....I may even have a PBEM containing this oddity here somewhere if it helps.

Dawg

If there is in fact FOW during the combat, such that one allegedly destroyed came back for more, then what you're seeing is even more understandable but it makes me wonder if the inbattle report isn't accurate while the summary is. What am I guessing is a likely reason you're seeing your difference? Some damaged return for more battle, maybe numerous times, while others return to base. Only problem is many of them have damage serious enough they end up ditching enroute such that the final report might drive up the destruction figure. If that is so, it does make me wonder when those reports are compiled. Is it directly after the battle, when some of them haven't had enough time to reach base (such that it's still more of a prediction), or is it half a day later when all those returning had adequate time? IOW, a more hasty estimate or a more precise one.

[VI66_slith]

I have had 3 fighters all get shot down to zero, and then while at 'zero' shoot down 6 bombers in playback, if FOW is in effect as has been stated here, thats fine. Now it has also been said I think, that the combat report is accurate, right? If so, then I would indeed know the numbers of enemy a/c shot down as its posted on the report. Does this sound correct? Or do the numbers on the report strictly state what the pilots see only?

Another question. I realize there is a +/- for ships reported sunk, my question is, does this, and the air losses reflect on the intel report accurately? If so why? Should I know in all cases which enemy ship(s) are sunk?

Thanks!

[MadDawg]

Just so we are all on the same page...[:)]

What I am seeing is the combat 'movie' showing aircraft shot down varying quite significantly from the battle report given *directly* after the air to air battle (NOT the in game report). For instance I just saw 30 kittyhawks attack 5 zeros. During the movie I counted 3 zeros shot down, yet the report given directly after the movie had finished told me I had 10 zeros shot down and 2 damaged!?

In UV I am pretty certain the combat movie and the battle report directly after it both showed the same (although errornous dur to FOW) results, so I am wondering why I am seeing such varied results here and if maybe it is a bug? If its not a bug, what is causing the variation between the actual movie and the report given at the end of the movie?


Charles, I am pretty certain that the in game aircraft loss screen is 100% accurate for both sides. I think some FOW would be great here when viewing the other sides losses if there is none applied already.

Dawg

[Mr.Frag]

There is no relationship between the two FoW effects. Both are foggy [:D]

Uv's a whole different beast and due to various issues, you could not even get the same result twice.

[MadDawg]

Hehe, okay, Im confused....[:)]

So, which is more correct then, the actual movie of air to air combat, or the battle summary of air to air losses given right after it? What is the reasoning to make these two directly related items so different?

Dawg

[MadDawg]

For instance, below is the combat summary from the attack I mentioned above...

Day Air attack on Lae , at 54,87

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 6

Allied aircraft
Wirraway x 3
P-39D Airacobra x 32
P-40E Warhawk x 39
B-17C Fortress x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 10 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-39D Airacobra: 3 damaged
P-40E Warhawk: 1 damaged
B-17C Fortress: 2 destroyed

....*but* watching the actual movie I only saw 3 of my zeros downed. What I am curious about is what is the reasoning as to why these two reports (the movie and the one above) vary so wildly? Is one more correct than the other? Ive always assumed that the movie is just a visual representation of that is reported in the combat summary, but is this not the case?

Thanks Frag! [:)]

Dawg

[Mr.Frag]

Neither is correct [:D]

It's supposed to be that way. Nothing like keeping the other guy guessing [;)]

[2Stepper]

ORIGINAL: MadDawg

Possibly! [:)]

If so I think this is different from UV though, as Im pretty sure the combat playback and report use to show the same result.

Dawg

Actually it's not. I've noted the slight discrepancies that you're talking about and I put them 100% on FOW. Because in UV, even those battles would differ because at the end of a battle you'd occasionally see some lucky Jap pilot splash a B26 or vice versa... Those were instances of planes leaving the combat area and getting nabbed by CAP.

The only thing I've noted so far is FOW affecting the combat animation... I've seen P35's for example dropped to ZERO in number and still shooting at Jap planes... It's odd, and frankly may be a glitch... Either way it's another thing that supports slight variations...

[MadDawg]

Okay, interesting....I never realised that, hehe.

Btw guys, Ive just done some testing in your tutorial scenario Frag and by comparing the combat movie to the 'aircraft losses' report in the turn part of the game, it seems that the movie playback might actually be close to 100% accurate? I only did about 4-5 test, but each time the amount of plans I counted as killed was the same as the report. If so this kinda makes sense as you actually watch the battle with real kills and then see a combat summary with pilot error....thought I would mention it

Dawg