Tanks vs infantry

Jiri · Post by **Jiri** » Tue Oct 30, 2001 6:51 am

When I'm using tanks or other armoured vehicles against infantry then the tanks are using most often only main gun. Why have I to disable main gun to make fire mounted machine guns? Then, if such tank has 2 machine guns (like Tiger), it uses sometimes one of them and sometimes both of them although both are ready to fire.
I understand that when enemy infantry is fleeing during fire, it breaks the fire. But the described situation works on targets that doesn't move.
Is there any reason for this? Cut I know before firing if my tank will fire only primary weapon or all of them when target is in range of all weapons?

McGib · Post by **McGib** » Tue Oct 30, 2001 8:04 am

As I recall there is a experience check regarding the range that your cmg's and bmg's will fire. I wouldn't count on your mg's firing at ranges greater than 4 or 5 hexes.

Resisti · Post by **Resisti** » Tue Oct 30, 2001 1:15 pm

Yes, an experience roll is involved in firing MG's.
I think if you're farther 5 or 7 hexes from your target.
Keep in mind a couple of things:
1)turn is only 2/3 minutes abt and in this lenght of time it is possible that one or more of the tank weapons cannot be fired.
2)The bigger the distance from yr target, the higher the probability that your crew "decides" that the main gun is the most effective weapon to be used and therefore MG's are not worth to be fired.

Experiment this way:
1)try to disable yr main gun(primary weapon); you'll see that yr crew uses MORE the MG's than before;
2)fire from let's say 10 hexes away to yr target then go nearer,let's say within 4 hexes;you'll notice yr tank will fire more frequently ALL the weapons he has.

Hope this helps.

Larry Holt · Post by **Larry Holt** » Tue Oct 30, 2001 7:26 pm

Originally posted by Resisti:
Yes, an experience roll is involved in firing MG's.
I think if you're farther 5 or 7 hexes from your target.
Keep in mind a couple of things:
1)turn is only 2/3 minutes abt and in this lenght of time it is possible that one or more of the tank weapons cannot be fired.
2)The bigger the distance from yr target, the higher the probability that your crew "decides" that the main gun is the most effective weapon to be used and therefore MG's are not worth to be fired.
[snip]

Yes, Matrix has commented on this before and these two issues are exactly why tank MGs are modeled this way.

-When firing the main gun, the crew may be busy or otherwise not able to fire coax & other MGs
-crews doctrinally only used MGs close in, beyond that main gun He was their primary anti-infantry weapon.

Frank W. · Post by **Frank W.** » Tue Oct 30, 2001 10:18 pm

but, 0.50 mg´s of the US are fired mostly.....

and kill these sonderkraftfahrzeuge of all kinds very good !!!!!

lnp4668 · Post by **lnp4668** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 1:24 am

Originally posted by Frank W.:
but, 0.50 mg´s of the US are fired mostly.....

and kill these sonderkraftfahrzeuge of all kinds very good !!!!!

I thinks this is the issue with the .50 cal of the US with its ap value. Same with the 12.7 mm Dshk MG of the Soviet. Both of these when mounted on tank will fire everytime the main gun fire

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 2:14 am

Originally posted by lnp4668:

I thinks this is the issue with the .50 cal of the US with its ap value. Same with the 12.7 mm Dshk MG of the Soviet. Both of these when mounted on tank will fire everytime the main gun fire

I think that the 50 cal was the commander's gun (mounted at his turret hatch) and he would frequently use it to "mark" a target for the gunner. The sparks from the rounds hitting and the tracer rounds (every 5th cartridge??) were easy to spot.

Tommy

Dave R · Post by **Dave R** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 3:40 am

Other points you ned to take into account are things like;
If the tank's buttond up, the commander cannot fire the AAMG, unless its remort controlled as with the Hertzer. The co-ax gun as a rule is mounted on the same elevation spindle as the main gun, that is, it uses the same elevation equipment, but their ballistic qualities are different, so if the main gun fires, the coax is usually not laid on target, the gunner has to use a seperate laying scale in his sight for the coax

I'm not 100% sure if these points are taken into account, but as a rule in a real combat situation when a buttoned tank fires it's main gun, you can more or less guarentee that neither the AMG and the co-ax would not shoot, at least not straight away. There would be a delay as the gunner relaid the coax onto the target, perhaps also having to fumble around switching fire control to the coax

Jiri · Post by **Jiri** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 3:46 am

Thanks. I could understand that there is not too much time to use all the weapons.
I discovered, that there is a big differece in success between using tank gun and mounted MG's. The MG's are much more successful even when using bigger guns (like the 88mm gun on Tiger) for any range to 10 hexes. Am I right?
With main gun I'm not able to do much kills against infantry. I'm playing an e-mail game now with Germans against my friend with Russians (winter 42). He bought only infantry and I was ready for a tank battle... <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
It took a time to discover that my guns are almost ineffective and make only holes which serves then like a cover for enemy infantry. So maybe the tanks should primary shoot with MG's at inf.
By the way could anybody tell me what is the differece between MG and CMG or BMG? Thanx.

kao16 · Post by **kao16** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 4:55 am

Originally posted by George H.:

By the way could anybody tell me what is the differece between MG and CMG or BMG? Thanx.

MG... generic term, could mean anything but probably has 360-degree arc of fire
CMG...cupola or co-ax MG, turret mounted 360-degree arc
BMG... Bow MG, can only fire in the frontal arc