Anyone here who wants to buy my Game?

[David Heath]

Hi Irrelevant

You are incorrect it is being sold through DR they are our reps. Hence we must charge VAT.

David

[RealChuckB]

Hi Pascal,

Sorry, but you are wrong about that.

The following text is taken from I post I did a while ago in the Korsun forum about this issue:

"Furthermore, the explanation "Information about VAT" doesn't really make sense. Digital River obviously tried to implement the new VAT regulation of the EU Directive 2002/38/EC.
Under this Directive, any B2C transaction of electronically supplied services (Annex L of the Directive list "Supply of software and updating thereof" inter alia) of a Non EU supplier is subject to VAT "at the rate of the country where the customer resides". That would ALWAYS be the country where the (private) customer has residency.
Any transaction of a EU based supplier to a (private) customer inside the EU is ALWAYS subject to the VAT of the country where the SUPPLIER resides.

So the only situation in which the "Information about VAT" would make sense is the one in which all sales to Austria, Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Netherlands, Spain, Sweden, and UK are made by a business entity that is located in any EU member state while all the sales to the other EU countries are made by a different business entity that is located outside the EU."

So, since last year (July 1st), Non-Eu based suppliers ARE bound to charge VAT. If you talk about the question, if they can be ENFORCED to do so ... well, that's another question. Sorry to say that, but it seems that the thesis of your wife was beaten by the European legislator [;)]

Chuck

[MG3]

I was a little surprised by the VAT, it wasn't stated very clearly in the buying process.

Guess I'll have to put in a few hours overtime

Steve

Great, so maybe there should be a big warning sign below the EU flag: "warning: additional costs hidden inside".

Fact is, this reminds me a bit on Monty Pythons "crunchy frog" sketch and if I would have ordered under the US flag, I would have got the same game 30 bucks cheaper.

[David Heath]

Hi One and All

Matrix is not trying to get any extra fees out of anyone and I do not think Digital River is either. We are going to sit down and have a nice talk with DR and see what we can change and improve to give better service to our Euro fans. One of the reasons we selected DR was because DR has direct EU roots. They EU store was setup because we are trying to give our Eurp fans better service.

MG3 try the game and give me a few days to look into this and see what we come up with. Matrix does not want to lose ONE of its customers.


David

[MG3]

BTW- one more reason to hate the EU. A buch of useless idiots who try to live up to the task to make a bigger mess of laws then the German tax system.

But dont be afraight, our government will do everything to keep the pace up...

[tsimmonds]

You are incorrect it is being sold through DR they are our reps. Hence we must charge VAT.

My bad. I assumed they were just working for you.

BTW- one more reason to hate the EU. A buch of useless idiots who try to live up to the task to make a bigger mess of laws then the German tax system.

But dont be afraight, our government will do everything to keep the pace up...

MG3--sorry to come across like a jerk. It is pretty clear that this is not Matrix's fault. I would say though, that if you did not intend to order with CD on demand, they should refund you the $10 that DR charged you for it....

[RealChuckB]

David,

Actually, this is probably the important information in this whole discussion. The question, if VAT has to be charged for electronically supplied services (DD) into the EU is a question that can be pretty easily answered when looking at the law (although there are probably people who would disagree [;)] about the combination of "easy" and "EU law"), BUT the real interesting question is, who is selling the product. If it is Matrixgames itself and DR is acting as a service provider, the VAT rate of the country where the customer in the EU has residency ("country of consumption") has to be charged, if it is DR as a reseller, they may sell it from the UK and then THEY have to charge always the VAT rate of the UK (% 17,5).

Chuck

[furious]

MG3.

Well the small-ish extra fee that us Old Worlders end up paying (and as a Brit I can only consider myself a Euro-ette, not a full fledged European), is but a pittance compared to the amount we are stung for every month by our governments to keep those Brussels Euro-crats in their crocodile skin, gold plated slippers.

On the subject of Tax, it's Ironic that this thread should start mere hours after the anniversery of the biggest tax dodge of all time (1776).

Only kidding my colonial chums, wait until we've finished our two new aircraft carriers and we'll have the tax man stopping by Conneticut to collect a few late payments[:'(]

[hithere]

MG3
I don't want to get into the VAT thing because I'm not in the EU, but I did not get the total total (with tax) till after I ordered.. I can say as far as the receipt goes (not the screen shot), we paid the same amount (not including VAT) using your exchange rates or 1.22 you paid 64.99 EU (per the receipt). that works out to US $79.28 and that is what I paid. I am not sure if you went back later to get the screenshot that does not show the CD on demand or if it is from when you ordered. If it was from when you ordered...I would think that you can compare the trans # from the screen shot to the receipt. if they are the same then I think you would have a much better case. ... I understand were you are coming from though...i have bought some things only to get hit by high local tax...anyway....I'm just trying to say that the price's themselves seem to be the same....well..anyway....good luck

[tsimmonds]

wait until we've finished our two new aircraft carriers

You guys are building more carriers? Now, will these new ones actually be able to carry aircraft?[:'(]

[hithere]

kinda a side note...but did anyone see that aircraft carrier for sale on E-bay a couple months ago....i bid $100 (US not EU [:D] ) but it would not even take it

[furious]

What?!! Aircraft carriers are supposed to carry aircraft? Wait a minute 'Aircraft-carrier' hmm yes it's all starting to make sense now.
Quick someone call the MoD before they finalise plans, thay have to know the truth.

I guess if they turn out to be rubbish we can always sell them to our Canadian cousins, worked with our subs.

(Maybe missed taxes from the US can be reclaimed by continuing to send English actresses to work on E.R)

[hithere]

ORIGINAL: furious

What?!! Aircraft carriers are supposed to carry aircraft? Wait a minute 'Aircraft-carrier' hmm yes it's all starting to make sense now.
Quick someone call the MoD before they finalise plans, thay have to know the truth.

I guess if they turn out to be rubbish we can always sell them to our Canadian cousins, worked with our subs.

(Maybe missed taxes from the US can be reclaimed by continuing to send English actresses to work on E.R)

Well make a deal...you can keep Madonna!!

[pasternakski]

@MG3

All kidding aside, I'm sure you will be glad you bought this game once you get into it, no matter that it wound up costing you 10 or so Euros more than you would have liked.

I sat here for almost three years waiting for this thing. It was always stated to cost 69.99 American dollars. I thought that I would see a standard production cycle, use my credit card on the Web site, pay that amount plus postage for a CD, wait a few days, and that would be it.

Oh, no. Down toward the end, along came "digital download." It cost the same $69.99, but you got no CD. Moreover, here I sat in the dark, wooded areas where DSL and cable Internet connections have yet to penetrate. Another ten bucks, and I could get a CD shipped, at some indeterminate time in the future, as a "backup." 56k downloads of 466 Mb programs don't have much of a track record for being successful.

I was p1ssed. Several people who showed up at the Origins convention this summer in Columbus, Ohio were able to buy multiple CD copies of the game. Living a couple of thousand miles away from the convention site and not having as much money as God, I had no such opportunity.

So, what did I do? I spent 80 bucks for what I thought was going to be a 70 buck game in order to get the eventual sure thing, then went for the 5 1/2 Kb/s download to try to get it as soon as possible. First time around, I got timed out on my ISP server after I had 27 percent of the game downloaded (this was the first time I knew that my ISP even timed you out on its servers). I hit the download button again. DR and Internet Explorer understood each other, and I was able to resume from where I left off.

Along about 3:30 a.m., I hit the wall again at 55 percent. This time, the whole deal screwed the pooch and I was dead in the water. I watched in horror as some 260 kb file downloaded and then IE announced, "Download complete." Obviously, I had 250 Mb or so of garbage. It headed for the recycle bin. 16 hours invested, 16 hours down the oubliette.

As I was fishing around in my cutlery drawer for a suitable instrument with which to slash my wrists, I saw a recommendation on these forums for a download manager called "GetRight." As I'm not getting any fish taco right now, I decided, "Okay, one more time. I got no other life."

It was 5:30 p.m., Friday afternoon. I fired up GetRight, got back onto the download page, and let 'er rip. Got bounced off my server at almost exactly the same point as I did the first time. Reconnected to the Internet. GetRight and DR resumed the two-humped beast position without difficulty.

I realized that the next roadside bomb would explode at around 55 megs. I calculated that to come at around 3:00 in the morning or so. I settled back, imagining the tortures that I could visit on Gary Grigsby, David Heath, and the rest of the infidel swine at Matrix and 2by3. I lasted a long time, but finally fell asleep.

I awoke, shagged and fagged and fashed, at 5:00 a.m. I blearily wiggled my mouse (no editorial comments, please) to reactivate my screen. Sure enough, I was dead in the water. I thought, "This is it. This is the end. Or at least the end of the beginning. Or maybe the beginning of the end." You can see how crazed I was in my silk panties.

In pain, I reconnected to my ISP. Amazingly enough, GetRight and DR still lusted after each other enough that my download resumed where it left off. So did I.

I tried to get up and occupy myself with household chores. I mopped the kitchen floor. I kicked Eleanor Rigby out from behind the door. The toilets (WCs to you like) and I went to war. All the while, I kept an eye on the dialogue box, calculating where I was. Two thirds. Less than 200 megs to go. Three quarters.

I knew whaat was coming. The end, inglorious and detestible, like Gregor Samsa on the wall. This was in accordance with my usual bad luck in drawing cards at poker and picking numbers in lotteries. I was never destined to finish this download. Even more, if I did, the d@mned thing would never install, much less run.

I hit 84 percent. Bam! I could hardly breathe. Pow! GetRight and DR, like two exhausted lovers, fell apart from each other right in front of my eyes.

I went for a walk outside, trying to clear my head. All I could think was, "I coulda been a contenda. Instead, I wound up a two-bit punk." Realizing how silly that was, I went back in to face the music. Gingerly, I popped up my ISP connection dialogue. Breathlessly, I entered my password. With a silent prayer, I hit "enter."

Like an episode of "The Outer Limits," GetRight yanked control of my TV set away from me like a big dog after a pork chop on Grandma's lap. Suddenly, the little fluttery document was flying across the dialog box again. The 10-kilobyte increment numbers were advancing like the LED display on a gas pump (faster for money than for gallons, of course).

I was frozen in time. I was the steak from the Stones' "Mother's Little Helper." I was transfixed (okay, I wasn't crucified, but it was a cathartic moment nonetheless).

To make a short story long, the counter counted off the counting until the counting was done. 26 hours it took (with a couple off for dozing). I had it.

I couldn't stand it. Feverishly, I got off the Internet (what is that again?) and double-clicked on that treasured icon. It installed, for Chrissake. More miraculously than that, it ran. It ran like a Kennedy for public office.

I've never been the same.

Before or since.

Ten bucks or so? Forget about it. It's the experience, not the dough.

I still ain't got the CD.

[diesel7013]

Sure do understand why you're mad about having to pay more for your game than us in the US...

When you live in a socialistic country that taxes everthing you do, have minimal freedom of political speech, can't guarantee the ownership of property... you'll have to pay more for you games than we do!

Oh... wait... that just may be us if JFK wins in Nov...[:D][:D][:D]

[AlbA]

I didn't get all that post Pasternakski. Maybe you're connection timed out. Can you retype please?









[:D]

[hithere]

pasternakski , don't take this the wrong way, but...i think ....you need to step away from the computer

[RolandRahn_MatrixForum]

Hi!

I (located in Germany like MG3) purchased my download in the US-shop:

Product Name Qty Ordered Platform Delivery Method Price
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
War In The Pacific 1 Digital Download/CD on Demand Digital River $ 69.99
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub Total: $ 69.99
Tax: $ 12.25
Total: $ 82.24


Assuming an exchange rate of 1.22 US$/Euro, that would be around 67.41 Euro.


MG3 quoted his bill as:

Product Name Qty Ordered Platform Delivery Method Price
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
War In The Pacific 1 Digital Download/CD on Demand Digital River 64.99 EUR
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub Total: 64.99 EUR
Tax: 11.37 EUR
Total: 76.36 EUR]


So, it looks as if the EU-Shop is a little more expensive than the US-Shop.
I think that it is difficult to offer something via the internet in two different currencies. Matrix should re-think their current policy and offer their products exclusively in US$.

However, if the 64.99 Euro include the CD-on-demand, then it would be well-balanced - 64.99 EUR * 1.22 US$/EUR = 79,28 US$

All in all, I think that it is difficult to purchase something via the internet in US$ and EUR - perhaps it would be better if Matrix would offer the products only in US$.

Just my 0.02 Euro,

Roland

[Oliver Heindorf]

ohoh boy...

MG3 : sorry to sound harrash here BUT those extra coins you loose are not a fault of Matrix. David H tries everything to suit every customer. But there are certain things that arent in his hand and he can do absolutly nothing about it. period.

you are a victim of the german way of shopping for a private person ( which is VERY comfortable ! ) : All prices we know are inclusive any taxes..... this system is not common in the USA, and their system makes sense in a different way ( would get out of topic to descibe it here )

there are two ways out of the situation now.

use your purchased software, have fun with it and act like a man ( and this game is PURE FUN ! ) or continue to cry like a baby and annoy the ppl here.

your choice. [&o]

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: AlbA

I didn't get all that post Pasternakski. Maybe you're connection timed out. Can you retype please?



Okay, punish me. They all do. Just punish me.





[:D]

@MG3

All kidding aside, I'm sure you will be glad you bought this game once you get into it, no matter that it wound up costing you 10 or so Euros more than you would have liked.

I sat here for almost three years waiting for this thing. It was always stated to cost 69.99 American dollars. I thought that I would see a standard production cycle, use my credit card on the Web site, pay that amount plus postage for a CD, wait a few days, and that would be it.

Oh, no. Down toward the end, along came "digital download." It cost the same $69.99, but you got no CD. Moreover, here I sat in the dark, wooded areas where DSL and cable Internet connections have yet to penetrate. Another ten bucks, and I could get a CD shipped, at some indeterminate time in the future, as a "backup." 56k downloads of 466 Mb programs don't have much of a track record for being successful.

I was p1ssed. Several people who showed up at the Origins convention this summer in Columbus, Ohio were able to buy multiple CD copies of the game. Living a couple of thousand miles away from the convention site and not having as much money as God, I had no such opportunity.

So, what did I do? I spent 80 bucks for what I thought was going to be a 70 buck game in order to get the eventual sure thing, then went for the 5 1/2 Kb/s download to try to get it as soon as possible. First time around, I got timed out on my ISP server after I had 27 percent of the game downloaded (this was the first time I knew that my ISP even timed you out on its servers). I hit the download button again. DR and Internet Explorer understood each other, and I was able to resume from where I left off.

Along about 3:30 a.m., I hit the wall again at 55 percent. This time, the whole deal screwed the pooch and I was dead in the water. I watched in horror as some 260 kb file downloaded and then IE announced, "Download complete." Obviously, I had 250 Mb or so of garbage. It headed for the recycle bin. 16 hours invested, 16 hours down the oubliette.

As I was fishing around in my cutlery drawer for a suitable instrument with which to slash my wrists, I saw a recommendation on these forums for a download manager called "GetRight." As I'm not getting any fish taco right now, I decided, "Okay, one more time. I got no other life."

It was 5:30 p.m., Friday afternoon. I fired up GetRight, got back onto the download page, and let 'er rip. Got bounced off my server at almost exactly the same point as I did the first time. Reconnected to the Internet. GetRight and DR resumed the two-humped beast position without difficulty.

I realized that the next roadside bomb would explode at around 55 megs. I calculated that to come at around 3:00 in the morning or so. I settled back, imagining the tortures that I could visit on Gary Grigsby, David Heath, and the rest of the infidel swine at Matrix and 2by3. I lasted a long time, but finally fell asleep.

I awoke, shagged and fagged and fashed, at 5:00 a.m. I blearily wiggled my mouse (no editorial comments, please) to reactivate my screen. Sure enough, I was dead in the water. I thought, "This is it. This is the end. Or at least the end of the beginning. Or maybe the beginning of the end." You can see how crazed I was in my silk panties.

In pain, I reconnected to my ISP. Amazingly enough, GetRight and DR still lusted after each other enough that my download resumed where it left off. So did I.

I tried to get up and occupy myself with household chores. I mopped the kitchen floor. I kicked Eleanor Rigby out from behind the door. The toilets (WCs to you like) and I went to war. All the while, I kept an eye on the dialogue box, calculating where I was. Two thirds. Less than 200 megs to go. Three quarters.

I knew whaat was coming. The end, inglorious and detestible, like Gregor Samsa on the wall. This was in accordance with my usual bad luck in drawing cards at poker and picking numbers in lotteries. I was never destined to finish this download. Even more, if I did, the d@mned thing would never install, much less run.

I hit 84 percent. Bam! I could hardly breathe. Pow! GetRight and DR, like two exhausted lovers, fell apart from each other right in front of my eyes.

I went for a walk outside, trying to clear my head. All I could think was, "I coulda been a contenda. Instead, I wound up a two-bit punk." Realizing how silly that was, I went back in to face the music. Gingerly, I popped up my ISP connection dialogue. Breathlessly, I entered my password. With a silent prayer, I hit "enter."

Like an episode of "The Outer Limits," GetRight yanked control of my TV set away from me like a big dog after a pork chop on Grandma's lap. Suddenly, the little fluttery document was flying across the dialog box again. The 10-kilobyte increment numbers were advancing like the LED display on a gas pump (faster for money than for gallons, of course).

I was frozen in time. I was the steak from the Stones' "Mother's Little Helper." I was transfixed (okay, I wasn't crucified, but it was a cathartic moment nonetheless).

To make a short story long, the counter counted off the counting until the counting was done. 26 hours it took (with a couple off for dozing). I had it.

I couldn't stand it. Feverishly, I got off the Internet (what is that again?) and double-clicked on that treasured icon. It installed, for Chrissake. More miraculously than that, it ran. It ran like a Kennedy for public office.

I've never been the same.

Before or since.

Ten bucks or so? Forget about it. It's the experience, not the dough.

I still ain't got the CD.