Anyone here who wants to buy my Game?

[MG3]

I am a bit angry by the fact that I wanted the game fast and trusted Matrix.

Not only I payed 79,90$ for the game because they billed me in Euros (64,99), no they did put a tax on it which they didnt showed in the bill before I hit "submit".

So I payed 76.36 Euros or in other words 93,88$ for a digital download without a CD or a box.

I feel so cheated at this moment, I had never a problem with the 64,99$, but I dont like to be treated this way. If there are hidden costs- then show them, the Euro thing is a cheap trick but my mistake I guess.

I guess nobody want to buy this thing from me, since I have no CD... nothing. I cant even return it! All I have is this EMail with serial key from Digitalriver(?). Try to sell that on EBay...

[tsimmonds]

ORIGINAL: MG3

I am a bit angry by the fact that I wanted the game fast and trusted Matrix.

Not only I payed 79,90$ for the game because they billed me in Euros (64,99), no they did put a tax on it which they didnt showed in the bill before I hit "submit".

So I payed 76.36 Euros or in other words 93,88$ for a digital download without a CD or a box.

I feel so cheated at this moment, I had never a problem with the 64,99$, but I dont like to be cheated.

I guess nobody want to buy this thing from me, since I have no CD... nothing. I cant even return it! All I have is this EMail with serial key from Digitalriver(?). Try to see that on EBay...

Don't blame Matrix for die Mehrwertssteuer, blame your Government. Matrix is also not responsible for currency exchange rates. Welcome to the world economy.

[freeboy]

Sorry about the bad experience... if you can, and you may not, get over the hurt of feeling betrayed this game is sooo incredible.. well worth the money spent in my opinion...
I could give all kinds of price per hour etc... but the real issue for you seems to be one of communication.. Matrix does have high standards.. but theyare like all of us limited in their perspectives seeing issues as a game design and publishing house... that is one huge reason these forums need to be read by them.. and they are !!!

So again, sorry and hope you can find it within yourself to forgive them... they do not see anything from taxes by the way...

[Erik Rutins]

MG3,

We are required to add the VAT by the laws of the countries we sell to in Europe. As the order is being created, it tells you that VAT will be added and gives you an informational link. It also offers a detailed VAT receipt after the order is finished. We have received feedback from several customers that these links and notices are not obvious enough (or at least, easy to miss in the rush to order WitP ) so we will work with the store this week to make them more obvious.

We don't get this money, your government does. Before the VAT was added, you were charged exactly what we charge customers in all other countries.

I'm sorry that you felt surprised or betrayed by this, we really have no choice and were advised by our store (which handles many international orders) that by displaying VAT information and offering a VAT receipt, we were complying with all norms in that regard.

Regards,

- Erik

[freeboy]

Hi irr,
Not getting it are you... the poster wasn't in the clear before he hit submit.. it is a matrix issue because it is a companies responsibility to adequately inform... not that I'm blaming matrix... but you totally blew this guy off..[:-]

[Erik Rutins]

Freeboy,

We didn't blow anyone off. As far as I know and have seen, the information is available before hitting submit. We'll test this again today - if it's not, then that's a store bug. The store info for our new releases was set up by DR right before they all left for the 4th of July holiday so I can't say I would be surprised if something went wrong, but it was certainly not a design decision. The test run I did, VAT info was available before the purchase was finalized.

Regards,

- Erik

[Arnir]

I hate surprise charges but I'm a little bit confused. What is the "cheap trick" about the Euros?

Why order it (If it was) from the US store? Isn't there a European store that would avoid currency issues? Or do people order it from the US store hoping to avoid the taxes?

[Arnir]

I think he was saying irrelevant blew him off, not you. (There I go again speaking for someone else. I'm prepared to be spanked. <G>)

[MG3]

Don't blame Matrix for die Mehrwertssteuer, blame your Government. Matrix is also not responsible for currency exchange rates. Welcome to the world economy.

You must think I am stupid or something. I order in the States all the time and never had to pay any "Mehrwertsteuer". Only when the custom thinks you have to pay- you pay. But with an digital download... hardly belivable.

And about the world economy- why I have to pay 25% more (without taxes) then the US people when I DOWNLOAD a game?

@feeboy:

thanks, I know what you mean. I have played many Grigsby/Billings (ironic, that name- hehe) to no end. PACWAR, WIR, BTR...

But I dont think I will enjoy this game for the next few weeks... this VAT/Euro things made me pretty upset- even it is partly my fault, since I didnt read every little letter but only the numbers.

[freeboy]

Mark,
Right.. irrelevent not you guys.. !!!
MAtrix rules (the seas at least with witp) ok land too...

[MG3]

I hate surprise charges but I'm a little bit confused. What is the "cheap trick" about the Euros?

Why order it (If it was) from the US store? Isn't there a European store that would avoid currency issues? Or do people order it from the US store hoping to avoid the taxes?

This would be no currency issue, since the credit card company does all the change.

Also I have never seen that an American Shop bills a German tax- they cant, since they are no German business.

But that not the main thing about the Euro/US Store. If I buy there, I want to be billed the same prices as other customers. But now I have payed 25% more for nothing- or better the pockets of Digitalriver. Think about it what they earn with this kind of stuff- a hidden price rise of 25%...

[Erik Rutins]

MG3,

ORIGINAL: MG3
You must think I am stupid or something. I order in the States all the time and never had to pay any "Mehrwertsteuer". Only when the custom thinks you have to pay- you pay. But with an digital download... hardly belivable.

I don't know why you don't have to pay VAT normally, but I know that we are legally required to add VAT when selling our games to you. It's not a choice and we don't get to keep the money.

And about the world economy- why I have to pay 25% more (without taxes) then the US people when I DOWNLOAD a game?

I'm not sure why you paid in dollars rather than Euros, but an exchange rate is not a surcharge. If you pay the equivalent dollars to the Euro price, you are still paying the same price. If you converted it back to Euros, it would still be the same price.

But I dont think I will enjoy this game for the next few weeks... this VAT/Euro things made me pretty upset- even it is partly my fault, since I didnt read every little letter but only the numbers.

The goal is not to hide the VAT, we thought it was evident, but as I said we've been getting some feedback to the contrary. The fact is that as far as we know, the VAT is unavoidable. You were charged the same price as a US customer + VAT. That's the only difference. If there's a problem with the store, please help us fix it - we rely on feedback from our European customers to know whether our European store is meeting their needs. If not, we will fix it, but removing VAT is not legally possible for us.

Regards,

- Erik

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: freeboy
Mark,
Right.. irrelevent not you guys.. !!!
MAtrix rules (the seas at least with witp) ok land too...

Whoops, sorry for my misreading that, I see now what you meant. Reading too quickly...

Regards,

- Erik

[MG3]

I'm not sure why you paid in dollars rather than Euros, but an exchange rate is not a surcharge. If you pay the equivalent dollars to the Euro price, you are still paying the same price. If you converted it back to Euros, it would still be the same price.

I didnt payed in Dollars- thats the main problem! If I would, there would be no problem. Think about it- instead of $ they billed me Euros- but the same amount kept the same which in the end, they/you got over 20% more money from me, since one Euro are 1,22 US Dollars. All I wanted is WITP for 64,99, not for nearly 100 bucks.

Code: Select all

Product Name        Qty Ordered  Platform                       Delivery Method  Price      
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 War In The Pacific  1            Digital Download/CD on Demand  Digital River    64.99 EUR  
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                      Sub Total:  64.99 EUR
                                                                            Tax:  11.37 EUR
                                                                          Total:  76.36 EUR]

quote:

But I dont think I will enjoy this game for the next few weeks... this VAT/Euro things made me pretty upset- even it is partly my fault, since I didnt read every little letter but only the numbers.

The goal is not to hide the VAT, we thought it was evident, but as I said we've been getting some feedback to the contrary. The fact is that as far as we know, the VAT is unavoidable. You were charged the same price as a US customer + VAT. That's the only difference. If there's a problem with the store, please help us fix it - we rely on feedback from our European customers to know whether our European store is meeting their needs. If not, we will fix it, but removing VAT is not legally possible for us.

I have never heard of such a thing "VAT"- I know sometimes youre asked if you are from certain states (in the US or Canada), since you get billed a few percent extra. Never so with Germany.

And what would you think if you get a screen where 64,99 is the amount to pay in the bill, you hit submit and suddenly 76 shows up.

[Erik Rutins]

MG3,

ORIGINAL: MG3
I didnt payed in Dollars- thats the main problem! If I would, there would be no problem. Think about it- instead of $ they billed me Euros- but the same amount kept the same which in the end, they/you got over 20% more money from me, since one Euro are 1,22 US Dollars. All I wanted is WITP for 64,99, not for nearly 100 bucks.

Code: Select all

Product Name        Qty Ordered  Platform                       Delivery Method  Price      
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 War In The Pacific  1            Digital Download/CD on Demand  Digital River    64.99 EUR  
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                      Sub Total:  64.99 EUR
                                                                            Tax:  11.37 EUR
                                                                          Total:  76.36 EUR]

I'm not sure I entirely understand you - did they convert Euros to Dollars and then charge you the dollar amount in Euros? Is that what you're saying? Sorry for the confusion here, but I want to make sure I understand exactly what happened.

I have never heard of such a thing "VAT"- I know sometimes youre asked if you are from certain states (in the US or Canada), since you get billed a few percent extra. Never so with Germany.
And what would you think if you get a screen where 64,99 is the amount to pay in the bill, you hit submit and suddenly 76 shows up.

Clearly, it should show you the VAT before you click to process your card. As far as I knew it was, if it's not we will fix it as quickly as possible. I have this issue on my list to discuss with the store folks today. Regarding the existence of VAT, it's not something we're very familiar with here in the US either, but we have been informed that it is a necessity for selling to Europe. The VAT info on the store should explain more, other than that you will have to ask your government, they get this money.

Edited: I notice that you also ordered CD On Demand, which is why your price ended up equivalent to $79. The normal price is $69.95 + $10 if you choose CD On Demand. Were you aware that you ordered CD On Demand?

Regards,

- Erik

[Marc von Martial]

MG3, VAT is the general english term for "Value added tax". In Germany called "Mehrwertsteuer".

There are EU laws that let Digital River no choice to charge the VAT. Even for "downloads". You might remeber the big discussion about this 2 or 3 years ago in Germany.

This is the info from the "Information about VAT" link that is promted for everybody when they pruchase one of our prodcuts.

Any digital products sold into the European Union include a VAT (Tax) charge of 17.5%.
NOTE: If your product is being delivered outside of the EU, you will not be charged VAT once you have entered your payment information.

Any physical products sold into the European Union include a VAT charge. However the VAT rate, and hence the total price, may alter once your shipping destination has been selected.

For customers from Austria, Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Netherlands, Spain, Sweden, and UK the national VAT rate will be applied. For all other EU customers, the UK VAT rate of 17.5% will be applied.

A VAT invoice can be viewed and printed at the end of your purchase.
NOTE: If your product is being delivered outside of the EU, you will not be charged VAT once you have entered your payment information.

I agree that this link might not be very prominent (and we will look into making it more apparent) to everybody. But it is also your responsibility as a customer to read everything that is promted to you on the screen.

Sorry for the hazzles.

[MG3]

The goal is not to hide the VAT, we thought it was evident, but as I said we've been getting some feedback to the contrary. The fact is that as far as we know, the VAT is unavoidable. You were charged the same price as a US customer + VAT. That's the only difference. If there's a problem with the store, please help us fix it - we rely on feedback from our European customers to know whether our European store is meeting their needs. If not, we will fix it, but removing VAT is not legally possible for us.

As I said- I was charged more then the "US" customer, because I had to pay the same amount in money as an US one, only in my currency which is "harder" than the Dollar.

I think it is my fault because I was so stupid to click on the EU flag when I bought the game. And then I was to stupid to see the EURO sign behind the numbers and when I missed the small VAT link in the lower right, my fate was sealed.

Really, I dont want this game anymore- but what can I do? I have payed nearly 100$ for it with no chance of getting a part of it back.

BS!

[MG3]

I agree that this link might not be very prominent (and we will look into making it more apparent) to everybody. But it is also your responsibility as a customer to read everything that is promted to you on the screen.

Sorry for the hazzles.

But I still would like to hear an explaintion how a digital download suddenly becomes 1/4 more expensive when you download it from Germany instead of the US (which are propably the same servers anyway).

And I love the clarification of the VAT price a lot:

[Greenhough222]

vat was not shown until after i accepted payment for me. but i was expecting a tax level just did nt know what amount not knowing US tax laws. come on fellas you should expect tax to be added!!!!!

however matrix, DR should be showing total cost before purchase

It could be worse !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I order several games from HPS had to pay VAT to the post office for total amount which included shipping!!!!!!!!!

that one pissed me off! even more so when i found Duchet did for cheaper in europe!!

[MG3]

It gets even better.

Now I know they really bill EU people a lot more: when you click on the EU flag- you pay 25% more because they bill you the same sum as the price in US $- only in Euros (which is roughly 25% more money). Ok, ok, I already said this- but: when you click on the Canadian flag, you will be billed around 94$- so they have calculated actually the price (1US $ ~ 1,33 Can $)- sure in this case they would lose 33% of their money.

These are really cheap tactics...