Marianas campaign, HFO v WITP Dude

[Mr.Frag]

Those manual things are just formalities

And then people complain when one is not included so they can not read something that they had no plans of reading in the first place ... talk about Irony.

[Fallschirmjager]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Those manual things are just formalities

And then people complain when one is not included so they can not read something that they had no plans of reading in the first place ... talk about Irony.

I have read some of it. I just missed the part about attacking support units.

[HawaiiFive-O]

In fairness, it is a 250+ page manual, with no index. Sure you can search the PDF, but that's not always going to get you what you want.

I've read it once, and after my initial PBEM's, I'll read it again. More will 'stick' the second time through.

The game's been out less than a week, not too many people should be considered 'experts' on the manual at this point. Yourself excluded, Mr. Frag. You have had the manual a lot longer than the rest of us. [:D]

[Grotius]

I have indexed two books, and I'm half tempted to create an index for the WiTP manual and tutorial. Already I find myself flipping around saying "I know I've seen this, but I can't find the rule." People tend to use an index more than a table of contents because an index can have cross-references and whatnot.

Anyone interested in a user-made index for the WITP manual?

[HawaiiFive-O]

Yes!

I find myself muttering "I know I've seen this, but I can't find the rule." constantly right now.

[Mr.Frag]

The game's been out less than a week, not too many people should be considered 'experts' on the manual at this point. Yourself excluded, Mr. Frag. You have had the manual a lot longer than the rest of us.

I am being very forgiving but don't expect me to *stop* with the manual digs [:'(]

The basic problem is this:

If you don't understand what you are doing, you get frustrated. The game is supposed to be fun, not frustrating.

Your Fun level is directly proportional to how well you understand things. You also avoid learning BAD things by doing things incorrectly which is about 70% of all the posts right now. Couple this with the post rate in the forum resulting in most answers being buried before people even get a chance to read them.

You guys need to work together to learn. Ask *clear* questions. Answer *clearly* if you know. Keep posts on topic. Title messages properly. All these things will help others.

[HawaiiFive-O]

Sure, I see what you are trying to say. Things will settle down in a week or two as things get sorted out.

I appreciate all the time you put in for the community. Thank you.

[dr. smith]

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

Also, I got the HQ to load up onto a AGC but I could NOT get the damn thing to unload. It was in port for 5 days and would not unload. Again...am I missing something?

In the Marianas, with my Amphib HQ on the AGC, it did not unload UNTIL Saipan was captured, then bingo, the REMFs wade ashore to the click-click of photographers.

[Mr.Frag]

In the Marianas, with my Amphib HQ on the AGC, it did not unload UNTIL Saipan was captured, then bingo, the REMFs wade ashore to the click-click of photographers.

Mac must have been in command ... can't wade ashore until the photo op is set up [:'(]

[kaleun]

Ahh, the famed Mac Arthur gambit....[:)]

[HawaiiFive-O]

The IJN scores it's first hit of the campaign, and it's a doozy.

The BB Tennessee comes under torpedo attack while bombarding Saipan. My groan of frustration at the torpedo slamming home quickly turns to panic as I see the words 'Magazine explodes' flash on screen.

Then... 'BB Tennessee sunk'. *glub glub* [X(]

I just about pooped my pants, I tells ya.

But wait! Turns out this is FoW and an overanxious sub commander talking. The Tennessee's just fine. Well, maybe not fine as there's a hole where there shouldn't be one and there's a few fires to put out, and she's listing heavily. But the important thing is she's still afloat. I did lose the DD Hunt to CD battery fire, so I'm guessing the sub commander lost track of what he was looking at in his haste to vacate the area after his dastardly attack on my poor defenseless battlewagon.

This is the last time I'll send in bombardment groups without destroyer escort. I'd rather lose a destroyer than a battleship. If, as I believe, my destroyer captain's suicidal impulses when facing CD batteries is truly a bug, I hope it's fixed soon. If not, them's the breaks, but I won't risk a battleship like this again.

In other news, we continue to throw everything we've got at the defenders of Saipan. The landings begin at dawn. I hope those CD guns have been at least partially silenced.

One more bombardment group heading in tonight, complete with DD escort. This is the big 4 BB group, headed up by the New Jersey. I hope they keep the Japs up all night.

A couple more supply TFs forming up at Eniwetok. It'll take about a week to load them up, so might as well get started now.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/13/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 65,64 Drat, how'd he get away?

Japanese Ships
SS RO-43

Allied Ships
DE Whitman
DE Tisdale
DE Steele
DE Seid
DD Evans
DD Heywood Edwards
DD Eaton
DD Dashiell

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on TF at 65,64 What'd they call these night attacks? Washing Machine Charlie?

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-S Irving: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
SS RO-43

Allied Ships
CVE Kalinin Bay

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x J1N1-S Irving bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 65,64 Heh, he lived to die another day.

Japanese Ships
SS RO-43, hits 6, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
DE Whitman
DE Tisdale
DE Steele
DE Seid
DD Evans
DD Heywood Edwards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Saipan at 63,64 [X(] [X(] [X(] I'm freaking out about this point...

Japanese Ships
SS RO-41

Allied Ships
BB Tennessee, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage Reported as SUNK!
CA Wichita
BB Idaho

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Saipan, at 63,64 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 4 destroyed, 1 damaged

15 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
CA Baltimore
CA Wichita, Shell hits 2
BB Idaho
BB Pennsylvania My first model, always had a soft spot for this ship.

Japanese ground losses:
529 casualties reported
Guns lost 13

Airbase hits 3
Runway hits 6
Port hits 1
Port fuel hits 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Saipan, at 63,64 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
No Japanese losses

25 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
DD Hunt Doesn't say so, but she was lost with all hands. Bracketed by 8" fire, it was over in a hurry.
DD Craven
DD Irwin
DD Gridley
DD Hudson
DD Hickox
CL Biloxi, Shell hits 2
CA Canberra, Shell hits 7
CA Boston
BB Iowa
BB Alabama
BB Indiana

Japanese ground losses:
289 casualties reported
Guns lost 10

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 18
Port hits 2
Port fuel hits 2
Port supply hits 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Saipan , at 63,64

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 130
SB2C Helldiver x 30
TBM Avenger x 36
OS2U-3 Kingfisher x 4
SOC-3 Seagull x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C Helldiver: 2 destroyed, 4 damaged
TBM Avenger: 9 damaged
SOC-3 Seagull: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
12 casualties reported

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 10
Port fuel hits 2
Port supply hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
29 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
18 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
2 x OS2U-3 Kingfisher bombing at 2000 feet
2 x OS2U-3 Kingfisher bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SOC-3 Seagull bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SOC-3 Seagull bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Saipan , at 63,64


Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 26
TBM Avenger x 53


Allied aircraft losses
TBM Avenger: 2 destroyed, 8 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
10 casualties reported

Port fuel hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
5 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Saipan , at 63,64


Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 26
TBM Avenger x 53


Allied aircraft losses
TBM Avenger: 2 destroyed, 8 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
10 casualties reported

Port fuel hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
5 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 5th Base Force, at 63,64

Sent in a couple of Wildcat squadrons to strafe the place. Unimpressed with results. Unlikely to try again any time soon.

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 16


Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 2 destroyed, 5 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
5 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x FM-2 Wildcat attacking at 100 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 47th Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 63,64


Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 11
TBM Avenger x 17


Allied aircraft losses
TBM Avenger: 5 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
12 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 47th Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 63,64


Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 19


Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 5 destroyed, 1 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
17 x FM-2 Wildcat attacking at 100 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 65,64

Japanese aircraft
P1Y Frances x 28

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 53

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y Frances: 16 destroyed, 14 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 2 damaged

Allied Ships 2 Frances actually penetrated the CAP, didn't hit anything though.
CA Indianapolis
CVE Barnes

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x P1Y Frances bombing at 18000 feet
1 x P1Y Frances bombing at 18000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Saipan , at 63,64

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 145
SB2C Helldiver x 178
TBM Avenger x 124

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y Frances: 7 destroyed, 5 damaged
A6M5 Zeke: 1 destroyed
E13A1 Jake: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C Helldiver: 2 destroyed, 7 damaged
TBM Avenger: 11 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
114 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 26
Port hits 7
Port fuel hits 4
Port supply hits 6

Aircraft Attacking:
26 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
34 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
18 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
30 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
18 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
31 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
18 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
23 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
18 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
33 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
18 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
9 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
7 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
9 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
9 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet

[GBirkn]

ORIGINAL: HawaiiFive-O
This is the last time I'll send in bombardment groups without destroyer escort. I'd rather lose a destroyer than a battleship. If, as I believe, my destroyer captain's suicidal impulses when facing CD batteries is truly a bug, I hope it's fixed soon. If not, them's the breaks, but I won't risk a battleship like this again.

You can have it both ways, you know. Send in a bombardment TF with BBs and CAs. Put the DDs in a separate ASW TF, and tell it to follow the bombardment TF. No muss, no fuss.

[HawaiiFive-O]

ORIGINAL: GBirkn
You can have it both ways, you know. Send in a bombardment TF with BBs and CAs. Put the DDs in a separate ASW TF, and tell it to follow the bombardment TF. No muss, no fuss.

That does not match my experience. I'd read that I should try that, and I did.

Still got a couple of destroyers hit, one badly. She'll probably sink today or the next.

See post on first page where I described trying to do this. 13 June 1944.

I agree, it'd be wonderful if it worked the way you describe, but it didn't.

[HawaiiFive-O]

The Marines hit the beaches at Saipan! Fighting is intense, but commanders at the scene believe a beachhead has been secured. Further reinforcements are unloading today.

CD Battery fire was generally ineffective, I think I was able to disrupt them sufficiently. I lost an LST, and had to scuttle an LCI(G) because she was a flaming wreck. One AP took a couple of shells, it's on fire too. I'll take it. Now to organize the men and advance inland. Today I only ordered bombardment attacks, after more men make it ashore it will be time to start deliberate attacking.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/14/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval Gun Fire at Saipan (63,64) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

24 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
DE Kyne
LST LST-274, Shell hits 4, on fire
LST LST-216, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage Sunk.
LST LST-215, Shell hits 1, on fire
LST LST-204
LST LST-203


Allied ground losses:
227 casualties reported
Guns lost 7

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval Gun Fire at Saipan (63,64) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

16 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
DD Ingersoll, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage IJN propaganda, Ingersoll hardly damaged at all.
DD Bagley

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval Gun Fire at Saipan (63,64) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

2 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
LCI(G) LCI(G)-78, Shell hits 1, on fire Later scuttled.
LCI(G) LCI(G)-77

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Saipan, at 63,64 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y Frances: 4 destroyed
A6M5 Zeke: 2 destroyed
E7K2 Alf: 2 destroyed

19 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
DD Gatling
DD Maury
DD Helm
DD Bagley
DD Dyson
DD Dortch
CA San Francisco
CA Minneapolis, Shell hits 7
BB New Jersey
BB California
BB Colorado
BB Maryland

Japanese ground losses:
1421 casualties reported
Guns lost 17

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 80

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coastal Guns at Saipan, 63,64, firing at TF 1003
TF 1003 troops unloading over beach at Saipan, 63,64


111 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
DD Philip
LST LST-216, Shell hits 9, on fire, heavy damage These two look fine to me? FoW.
LST LST-215, Shell hits 8, on fire, heavy damage
LST LST-203, Shell hits 1, on fire


Allied ground losses:
518 casualties reported
Guns lost 3
Vehicles lost 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coastal Guns at Saipan, 63,64, firing at TF 1003
TF 1003 troops unloading over beach at Saipan, 63,64


11 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
DD Picking


Allied ground losses:
44 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coastal Guns at Saipan, 63,64, firing at TF 1011
TF 1011 troops unloading over beach at Saipan, 63,64



Allied ground losses:
405 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coastal Guns at Saipan, 63,64, firing at TF 1012
TF 1012 troops unloading over beach at Saipan, 63,64


29 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
DD Renshaw
AP Winged Arrow, Shell hits 1 Hurt pretty bad, but she'll live.


Allied ground losses:
327 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coastal Guns at Saipan, 63,64, firing at TF 1013
TF 1013 troops unloading over beach at Saipan, 63,64



Allied ground losses:
194 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 65,66

Japanese Ships
SS RO-114

Allied Ships
DD Ingersoll, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage Hardly scratched her.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Saipan , at 63,64


Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 43
TBM Avenger x 55


Allied aircraft losses
TBM Avenger: 7 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
7 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 47th Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 63,64


Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 79
SB2C Helldiver x 50


Allied aircraft losses
SB2C Helldiver: 2 destroyed, 3 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
31 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
31 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Saipan , at 63,64

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 9
F6F Hellcat x 200
SB2C Helldiver x 144
TBM Avenger x 174

Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1 Jake: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
P1Y Frances: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
A6M5 Zeke: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C Helldiver: 4 destroyed, 7 damaged
TBM Avenger: 5 destroyed, 5 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
82 casualties reported

Airbase hits 6
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 78
Port hits 5
Port fuel hits 2
Port supply hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
28 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
17 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
30 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
17 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
30 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
18 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
30 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
18 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
17 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
17 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
24 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
18 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
9 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
9 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
9 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
9 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
6 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Saipan

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 19227 troops, 157 guns, 2 vehicles

Defending force 15103 troops, 217 guns, 81 vehicles



Allied ground losses:
10 casualties reported

[HawaiiFive-O]

The Combined Fleet made it's first appearance today. I'm not really sure what happened, but a TF with Shokaku and Zuikaku in it closed the range but never launched a strike. Unfortunately for them, we did.

If my flyboys are too be believed, I scratched 5 carriers today, 2xCV and 3xCVE. As well as put some holes in a couple of battleships.

I got real lucky that their planes didn't fly, but it looks like it's a full court press to nail my landing vessels at Saipan. Can't protect them all, so we bugged out. About 2/3rds of the Mar Divs are on the beach, and about a 1/3rd of the 27th is too. The rest are on boats that are steaming away from Saipan. We'll let 5th Fleet put some holes in the IJN before heading back in.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/15/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coastal Guns at Saipan, 63,64, firing at TF 1003
TF 1003 troops unloading over beach at Saipan, 63,64


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coastal Guns at Saipan, 63,64, firing at TF 1011
TF 1011 troops unloading over beach at Saipan, 63,64


18 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied ground losses:
585 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coastal Guns at Saipan, 63,64, firing at TF 1012
TF 1012 troops unloading over beach at Saipan, 63,64


28 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied ground losses:
466 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coastal Guns at Saipan, 63,64, firing at TF 1013
TF 1013 troops unloading over beach at Saipan, 63,64


6 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied ground losses:
276 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 53,67

Japanese Ships
DD Nowaki
DD Isokaze
DD Yukikaze
DD Akishimo
DD Asashimo
DD Hayashimo
CL Yahagi

Allied Ships
SS Balao, hits 3, on fire, heavy damage FoW, not a scratch on her.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 53,66

Japanese Ships
DD Yamagumo
DD Michishio
DD Kishinami
DD Fujinami
CA Kumano
CVL Chiyoda

Allied Ships
SS Tuna

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on TF, near Saipan at 63,64

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 9
P1Y Frances x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-S Irving: 2 damaged
P1Y Frances: 2 destroyed, 3 damaged

Allied Ships
SS Tuna
CA San Francisco
BB Maryland
BB Colorado
DD Maury
CA Minneapolis

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x J1N1-S Irving bombing at 2000 feet
2 x P1Y Frances bombing at 6000 feet
4 x J1N1-S Irving bombing at 2000 feet
4 x J1N1-S Irving bombing at 2000 feet
3 x P1Y Frances bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on TF, near Saipan at 63,64

Japanese aircraft
P1Y Frances x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
CA Minneapolis
DD Bryant

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x P1Y Frances bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coastal Guns at Saipan, 63,64, firing at TF 1011
TF 1011 troops unloading over beach at Saipan, 63,64


1 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
DD Prichett


Allied ground losses:
391 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coastal Guns at Saipan, 63,64, firing at TF 1012
TF 1012 troops unloading over beach at Saipan, 63,64


24 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Japanese ground losses:
13 casualties reported

Allied ground losses:
680 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coastal Guns at Saipan, 63,64, firing at TF 1013
TF 1013 troops unloading over beach at Saipan, 63,64



Allied ground losses:
323 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Saipan at 63,64

Japanese Ships
SS I-185

Allied Ships
DD Dortch, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage And we didn't even get a DC attack off on this sub in shallow water...
DD Ingersoll
DMS Hopkins
DD Gatling
DD Maury
DD Helm
DD Bagley
DD Dyson
CA Minneapolis
BB Maryland

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Saipan , at 63,64


Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 47
TBM Avenger x 24


Allied aircraft losses
TBM Avenger: 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
14 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 43rd Division, at 63,64


Allied aircraft
TBM Avenger x 7


Allied aircraft losses
TBM Avenger: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 47th Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 63,64


Allied aircraft
TBM Avenger x 24


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
13 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 58,66

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 53

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 147
SB2C Helldiver x 178
TBM Avenger x 160

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 138 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 17 destroyed, 9 damaged
SB2C Helldiver: 4 destroyed, 5 damaged
TBM Avenger: 5 destroyed, 14 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Zuikaku, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage Reported as sunk.
CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 22, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage Reported as sunk.
CVE Kaiyo, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage Reported as sunk.
CA Mogami
CL Yahagi, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CA Haguro
DD Nowaki

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
2 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
1 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
2 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
6 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
1 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
7 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
2 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
2 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
1 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
1 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
1 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
1 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
1 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
7 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
3 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 58,66


Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 15
SB2C Helldiver x 29
TBM Avenger x 18


Allied aircraft losses
SB2C Helldiver: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
CVE Kaiyo, on fire, heavy damage
CV Zuikaku, on fire, heavy damage
CV Shokaku, on fire, heavy damage
CL Yahagi, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
2 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 62,64

Japanese Ships
SS RO-115, hits 6, on fire, heavy damage Reported as sunk.

Allied Ships
DD Halligan
DD Hall

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 60,64


Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 144
SB2C Helldiver x 158
TBM Avenger x 128


Allied aircraft losses
SB2C Helldiver: 2 damaged
TBM Avenger: 2 destroyed, 9 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato, Bomb hits 8, Torpedo hits 2, on fire I hope I got her good.
CVE Unyo, Bomb hits 14, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage Reported as sunk.
CVE Shinyo, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage Reported as sunk.
CA Myoko, Bomb hits 2, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
1 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
6 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
1 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
2 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
2 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
1 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
3 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 59,67


Allied aircraft
TBM Avenger x 10


Allied aircraft losses
TBM Avenger: 5 destroyed, 8 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Yamato, Torpedo hits 1 Probably lies, but if I did put a fish into each of them, I'll be happy. [:D]
DD Shiratsuyu
BB Musashi, Torpedo hits 1, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 58,66


Allied aircraft
SB2C Helldiver x 24


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
CV Zuikaku, on fire, heavy damage
CV Shokaku, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Saipan at 63,64

Japanese Ships
SS I-185

Allied Ships
DD Picking
DD Philip
DE Lamons
DE Kyne
DE Hilbert
DE Baron
DE Bangust
DE Acree
LCI(G) LCI-68


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Saipan

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 19045 troops, 154 guns, 1 vehicles

Defending force 36717 troops, 418 guns, 83 vehicles



Allied ground losses:
19 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 2


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Saipan

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 14242 troops, 187 guns, 17 vehicles

Defending force 35466 troops, 182 guns, 1 vehicles


Japanese ground losses:
222 casualties reported
Guns lost 7

Softening them up for the big push.

[Odin]

Japanese Ships
BB Yamato, Torpedo hits 1 Probably lies, but if I did put a fish into each of them, I'll be happy.
DD Shiratsuyu
BB Musashi, Torpedo hits 1, on fire

With their air cover bombed to pieces i would be on the hunt for them and finish them off.[8D]

[Alikchi2]

Anticlimax! Sorry, I was rooting for the Japs [;)]

[HawaiiFive-O]

Not surprising, everyone loves the underdog. [:)]

But don't count him out yet. He might still put a wrench into my plans. First, he's got a lot of surface ships. I can't hit them all, and if some get into my landing TFs, they're dead meat.

Also, I think I know what he did with the Sho/Zui. Why didn't they strike? I suspect he offloaded their Judy/Jill squadrons for local defense at Palau, and sent them out as sacrificial lambs with the 3 airgroup less CVEs.

And that leaves the question of where the other 3 CVs and 4 CVLs are. Maybe he did the same with their airgroups. Or maybe he's looking to avoid 5th Fleet with them and hit me where they're not?

[GBirkn]

ORIGINAL: HawaiiFive-O
That does not match my experience. I'd read that I should try that, and I did.

Still got a couple of destroyers hit, one badly. She'll probably sink today or the next.

See post on first page where I described trying to do this. 13 June 1944.

I agree, it'd be wonderful if it worked the way you describe, but it didn't.

No kidding? I used that with a couple of bombardment TFs and didn't have any DDs hit. I guess I just got lucky.

[HawaiiFive-O]

ORIGINAL: GBirkn

No kidding? I used that with a couple of bombardment TFs and didn't have any DDs hit. I guess I just got lucky.

Or maybe I just got unlucky.

No matter, I think the real trick is this:

Port Attack at least 2-3 days to smash up some of the CD guns. Then bombard a few times. I'm going to leave my DDs in, but that's just because I have nightmares of lurking subs. After a couple of days of air attacks, the DDs don't get roughed up as much.

This means that the common UV tactic of 'surprise' bombardments is on the shelf (for me at least, YMMV), but I think that's a good thing. Suppressing CD gun fire should be a gradual process.

Hit them with air. Then send in the bombardment group. Then send the men up the beaches.