Just like in pre-2.30 in UV

[Sonny]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese aircraft
D3A Val x 19
B5N Kate x 38

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 2
P-26A x 1
P-40B Tomahawk x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val: 14 destroyed
B5N Kate: 10 destroyed, 5 damaged


Allied Ships
CA Indianapolis, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
DMS Dorsey

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese aircraft
D3A Val x 39
B5N Kate x 43

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 2
P-26A x 1
P-40B Tomahawk x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val: 1 damaged
B5N Kate: 8 destroyed, 2 damaged


Allied Ships
DMS Elliot
DMS Dorsey, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DMS Southard
CA Indianapolis, Bomb hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
DMS Hopkins, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
2 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
3 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
2 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
1 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
3 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese aircraft
D3A Val x 14

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 2
P-26A x 1
P-40B Tomahawk x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val: 12 destroyed, 4 damaged


Allied Ships
AVD McFarland

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 119,68

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 72
D3A Val x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val: 4 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Reid, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
3 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese aircraft
B5N Kate x 17

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 2
P-26A x 1
P-40B Tomahawk x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N Kate: 4 destroyed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese aircraft
B5N Kate x 14

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 2
P-26A x 1
P-40B Tomahawk x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N Kate: 4 destroyed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 119,68

Japanese aircraft
D3A Val x 11

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AP St. Mihel, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP U.S. Grant, Bomb hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet


Several large and several small unescorted attacks into the cap over Pearl while all 72 of the fighters escorted 7 Vals to a non-carrier target!! [:@][:@][:@]

[MadDawg]

I had a similar situation in the Marianas scenario where a group of nells attacks a carrier force with 120 odd hellcats as CAP, even though I had (purposely) taken their escort away so they wouldnt.

[Sonny]

ORIGINAL: MadDawg

I had a similar situation in the Marianas scenario where a group of nells attacks a carrier force with 120 odd hellcats as CAP, even though I had (purposely) taken their escort away so they wouldnt.

Well, that may be a little different - your guys had no escorts available. My guys had a bunch of escorts available and they all went to escort 7 Vals to a TF which had no carriers while 100 other bombers went unescorted.

Matrix/2by3 could of at least imported the UV 2.30 code which fixed this problem to a reasonable degree.[8|]

[Erik Rutins]

Sonny,

The code is in there, this may just be a fluke. Let us know if you see anything like this with regularity. I'm sure the team will check on it to make sure it's working as intended.

Regards,

- Erik

[Mr.Frag]

Several large and several small unescorted attacks into the cap over Pearl while all 72 of the fighters escorted 7 Vals to a non-carrier target!!

People complain, you fix it, then they don't read the rules about the fix and complain [:D]

Welcome to the world of *UNCOORDINATED* Air Strikes. Last I checked, KB was well over the CV coordination rule, yet you complain that you get hosed for operating a group with 400+ Aircraft?

Nothing broken, move along [:D]

[MadDawg]

ORIGINAL: Sonny

ORIGINAL: MadDawg

I had a similar situation in the Marianas scenario where a group of nells attacks a carrier force with 120 odd hellcats as CAP, even though I had (purposely) taken their escort away so they wouldnt.

Well, that may be a little different - your guys had no escorts available. My guys had a bunch of escorts available and they all went to escort 7 Vals to a TF which had no carriers while 100 other bombers went unescorted.

Matrix/2by3 could of at least imported the UV 2.30 code which fixed this problem to a reasonable degree.[8|]

Possibly, but then how can I order my Betty's to stay grounded and not get wastes on attacks they have no chance in succeeding with? Backically I wanted them to stay put until some AP's showed up on the horizon Attacking a carrier group with 120 hellcats at CAP was just suicide, hehe.

They did this several times until I ended up moving them from the airfeild to somewhere the carriers werent.

Dawg

[Mr.Frag]

Possibly, but then how can I order my Betty's to stay grounded and not get wastes on attacks they have no chance in succeeding with? Backically I wanted them to stay put until some AP's showed up on the horizon Attacking a carrier group with 120 hellcats at CAP was just suicide, hehe.

The bettys would not fly without some escort. You might want to look at other bases you have where fighters are sitting there on escort duties.

[MadDawg]

Frag, in the scenario Im playing they did indeed fly without any escort stright into the carrier battle group, which I thought was a little odd at the time. I can probably dig up a save for this if you think it might be something worth looking at?

Dawg

[Mr.Frag]

A save the turn before they flew would be useful

[MadDawg]

I had a look frag but they are unfortunatly I have cleaned out my recieved folder.

I can tell you it was in the Marianas scenario. I got my level bombers smacked early as they attacked a carrier group (They did have some escort for this one). To save them from another such attack I removed all of the fighters to Palau (the manual states that they bombers shouldnt go after a target unescorted if the CAP is a problem) so the bombers would only attack TF's without CAP. Next turn they still flew though and got hammered once more. I imagine it wouldnt be too hard to replicate in that scenario.

Dawg

[Mr.Frag]

The specifics of the rule basically translate to this: If there is enough escort (read that as about 8 aircraft), they will go for anything.

The reason this was done was without it, Allied ships become immune completely from 1943 onwards. As long as there is a threat from LBA, they have to act accordingly and some aircraft are bound to sneak through and score hits.

Without this, all aircraft would simply sit there waiting for the TF to show up and bombard the hell out of them. At least in the air they have a slight chance.

The pressure has shifted to the player to manage aircraft. If they can be flown, they will be flown.

You must keep in mind that after mid '43, all Japanese attacks are basically suicide runs. You are going to loose massive numbers of aircraft. That is just the way it is.

[MadDawg]

Thanks for the info Frag.

Im a little confused by this though as on page 124 of the manual is states that "If a Target is not the target set for the air unit, then the expected CAP must not be too great for the expected escort (roughly 1 escort for every 2 CAP)." This is part of the checklist that aircraft much pass before flying each and every mission, and my aircraft certainly shouldnt have passed it as they got smacked hard the day before.

Hehe, you did say to read the manual [:)]

Dawg

[Mr.Frag]

This is part of the checklist that aircraft much pass before flying each and every mission, and my aircraft certainly shouldnt have passed it as they got smacked hard the day before.

One of the late adjustments was to ensure that hopeless raids were possible. The cap rule translates to as long as there is enough (1 group), the bombers WILL fly on the chance that some get through. Get used to getting creamed as Japan, they really did. Late war scenarios are not going to be pretty.

Thats why I asked if you had ANY escort available to fufill this rule.

[MadDawg]

OKay, interesting....bascially a precursor to a kamakazi attack, hehe. Im sure there were maybe of these types of battles later in the war. Thanks for taking the time to explain this.

In a perfert world an 'attack warship'/'attack transport' option would be great though [:)]

Dawg

[Sonny]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Several large and several small unescorted attacks into the cap over Pearl while all 72 of the fighters escorted 7 Vals to a non-carrier target!!

People complain, you fix it, then they don't read the rules about the fix and complain [:D]

Welcome to the world of *UNCOORDINATED* Air Strikes. Last I checked, KB was well over the CV coordination rule, yet you complain that you get hosed for operating a group with 400+ Aircraft?

Nothing broken, move along [:D]

I could understand it if it were the other way round - the escorts all flew to PH with only 7 Vals. The escorts all had PH as their escort target.

Seems a bit severe in any case.