Mega Campaigns as ESDs?

AmmoSgt · Post by **AmmoSgt** » Thu Nov 08, 2001 5:29 am

I think there is a couple of things that are not exactly understood that i would like to comment on ....
First the Patch for the MCNA CD with Version 5.3 ... not everybody needs the Patch ( Most compuers work fine without it ) and the Patch is included in Version 6.1 so it is available for download ..so i don't see that problem ..
Last Time I checked ( about 3 minutes ago ) patches for anout 4 languages are available that work for any version of SPWAW and while i didn't see Spanish ..I know i saw some posting about folks working on a Spanish Version of the manual ..
SPWAW comes with a Manual and editors and all sorts of other FREE goodies ..
Version 5.3 is old history and was replaced by 6.1 so why folks are still complaining about not being able to download a patch , that is probably not needed , only occurs on some configurations if yoiu insist on using 5.3 is beyond me .. Load the game .. try it ...see if you need the patch before complaining about not having something you don't need , then if you do , then upgrade to 6.1 ???
If you want a Spanish language version , then volunteer to translate it from english to spanish, and I am sure somebody at Matrix ..will do what they have always done ... post it ..
geeze louise...
If shipping costs are too high via the Fedex route then, get a buddy stateside to relay it to you at regular postal rates.

David Heath · Post by **David Heath** » Thu Nov 08, 2001 11:51 am

Hi Everyone

Let me try to make some things clear. First my comments should NOT have been taken that I was mad. I understand very much the shipping problems.

We will not ship anything that can not be tracked. If a order is placed on a credit card and I can not prove it got there the credit card company will credit my account. Matrix lost so much money with the poor service of the USPO and then people making charge backs it was just not worth it.

FedEx and UPS makes it so everyone the customer and the company can see what is going on with an order.

Richard The First I was not offended by your comments at all. and I fully understand what the problem is. Please understand that FedEx and UPS are really the only way we can ship our products and know for a fact what is going on.

The patch email was done as a quick fix to our customers by Paul. We have been fine tuning and working on SPWaW v7.0 for sometime now as well as the OOB and the formations. The new full update to v7.0 should be ready soon and it will be available as a download.

My comment on the $40.00 game was not to say that if people keep talking about shipping issues we were going to raise the price. Many gamers have said the shipping cost are more then the game. This is true, but to for us to give quick and effective shipping to our customers the shipping costs are going to higher. My comment was meant to say we did not want to charge more then $25.00 for the game would you really feel better about the shipping cost?

The real bottom line is we are trying to get our games to everyone at the best shipping rates and in a way everyone knows what is going on. We have signed on with some wargame dealers overseas and are talking to more as we speak. I have notice many game publishers are now switching to a FedEx or UPS solution.

So we understand and we know about the problem and we are doing our best to fix them. Matrix Games is a company that loves gaming, good or bad we want to hear you and do our best to address these issues.

[ November 08, 2001: Message edited by: David Heath ]

[ November 10, 2001: Message edited by: David Heath ]</p>

scimitar · Post by **scimitar** » Thu Nov 08, 2001 11:43 pm

Hey Mikimoto,
Your comments are very interrestive: so you don't have to pay custom costs in Spain for foreign softwares? I understand that in such a case you prefer to order directly to Matrixgames; it's evident and the money go directly to Matrixgames; better for them...
So, in the European Community, goods can be cheaper for me but not for you: harmonization in Europe for all Europeans is not yet a reality...

Mikimoto · Post by **Mikimoto** » Fri Nov 09, 2001 1:01 am

Originally posted by scimitar:
Hey Mikimoto,
Your comments are very interrestive: so you don't have to pay custom costs in Spain for foreign softwares? I understand that in such a case you prefer to order directly to Matrixgames; it's evident and the money go directly to Matrixgames; better for them...
So, in the European Community, goods can be cheaper for me but not for you: harmonization in Europe for all Europeans is not yet a reality...

Hey Scimitar.
I dont know if we pay custom cost for foreign software... In fact when I received the package with the first MegaCampaign, well, it was in my mailbox, and nobody went home to ask a bill. United Europe is a dream... <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

K G von Martinez · Post by **K G von Martinez** » Fri Nov 09, 2001 1:53 pm

Scimitar,
in my experience it just depends on your luck if you have to pay import tax or not. Irrespective of value sometimes yes, sometimes no, but I have the impression: the bigger the package the more likely you have to pay. By the way: I've got MCNA without taxes and - good old times, when it was possible - by USmail from Matrix.

Gen.Hoepner · Post by **Gen.Hoepner** » Fri Nov 09, 2001 2:17 pm

It's always the same old problem here....!!!I think that we,european,we cannot complain about the price of the shipping cost,just because Matrix can't do anything more....or better:anything more would be anti-economic.The point,guys,is that we are few.....a 10 % of the matrix custumers probably...or even less.....our demand curve is not that strong to influence the offer matrix's curve.....(well,maybe Keynes here doesn't really focuses the point,but i hope i've explained my thought).
It's not only matrix......!try to order a Cadillac or a tipical american car which is not directly imported in europe...... We pay the service of an trans-atlantic mail service...and that's all
Another way to skip this problem should be to make only few orders for many people....organizing the packages for states.......all the Italians <img src="redface.gif" border="0"> ne order with 5 or whatever MCcds ,all the Spanish...etc etc....

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Fri Nov 09, 2001 8:58 pm

My input here where specifically Matrix is concerned...

Matrix doesnt owe us anything period. The Mega Campaigns exist as a result of us all being offered, repeatedly I might add, a game that is totally free. Matrix has given us a game, that I put at a value three times the worth of any Mega game cd. And they gave it to us for free.

Now if Steel Panthers WaW is merely bait to lure us to buy Mega Campaign cds, well Matrix, you deal in some damn fine bait. Fish never had it so good.

If Matrix cant lower shipping costs, then thats the way it is, get over it, save the crying for a closet where it belongs.

If you live outside the US where shipping costs are outrageous, tough. Its YOUR challenge to fix that, not Matrix's challenge.
I know what I intend to do. It was my own initiative that sparked the idea. I am certainly not going to put the burden on Matrix.

Matrix you keep doing the excellent job and stop fussing over whether some fans have trouble. Its our hassle to fix our hassles.

RichardTheFirst · Post by **RichardTheFirst** » Sat Nov 10, 2001 9:36 pm

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1:
My input here where specifically Matrix is concerned...

Matrix doesnt owe us anything period. The Mega Campaigns exist as a result of us all being offered, repeatedly I might add, a game that is totally free. Matrix has given us a game, that I put at a value three times the worth of any Mega game cd. And they gave it to us for free.

Now if Steel Panthers WaW is merely bait to lure us to buy Mega Campaign cds, well Matrix, you deal in some damn fine bait. Fish never had it so good.

If Matrix cant lower shipping costs, then thats the way it is, get over it, save the crying for a closet where it belongs.

If you live outside the US where shipping costs are outrageous, tough. Its YOUR challenge to fix that, not Matrix's challenge.
I know what I intend to do. It was my own initiative that sparked the idea. I am certainly not going to put the burden on Matrix.

Matrix you keep doing the excellent job and stop fussing over whether some fans have trouble. Its our hassle to fix our hassles.

I beg your pardon Les but if I own a company I don't want you in there as a manager. In the competitive world we live nowadays every company's service ends not only when the product is delivered but with the post-sale feed-back as well.

We are not crying here, we are giving feed-back.

C u later.

"Vini, vidi, vinci" - Iulius Cæsar

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Sat Nov 10, 2001 11:09 pm

Richard you have to give Matrix credit where its due.

They could have marketed Mega Camapign sans Version X Steel Panthers. But they didnt. They could have developed Mega Campaign sans online furom and just boxed it for the store shelf, but they didnt do that either.

And thats the heart of my comment. Matrix has not only gone waaaaaay wide of the mark, they have exceeded normal business practices exceedingly well. They are doing what most businesses routinely dont do. And doing it damn well.

So when I say its not the fault of Matrix if they cant ship a new program on a cd, that is likely being piggy backed on the program they actually want to sell, to countries that enjoy oppressing consumers to an obscene sum of money. I say its no longer credibly decent to ask for more.

As for being a manager, hmmmm well actually I would never work for someone actually. I dont do the "cog" thing well. But I do have my own business. And if I was healthier I would venture I would be to busy to type this heheh.

There comes a time when a business has the right to say sorry we have done our part. You cant please everyone all the time (well you can, but those businesses tend to go bankrupt).

AmmoSgt · Post by **AmmoSgt** » Sat Nov 10, 2001 11:26 pm

Have any of the Overseas folks considered actually complaining to the shiping outfits or customs authorities who set the high prices or to the cheaper postal agencies that have such high loss rates that make shiping things thru cheaper channels impractical due to the high loss rates ?
I would think complaining to the folks actually causing the problems or charging the high premiums or high custom rates would be the folks to complain to ? I mean realistically thats who is causing these problems .. Not Matrix .. just a thought ...
Matrix has a Free product with great performance ( i have never had a lock up or malfunction , maybe i just set it up right or something .. heck I got windows 98 I got SP1 that runs SP2 SP3 SPWAW in versions 4.5 5.3 6.1 and 7.0beta , I got SPWW2 versions 3 and 4 and I even have SPSquad leader version 1.1, SP Moderna and a couple of SP1 variants for Poland all curently on my computer all work flawlessly , Had most on the early versions when i was running windows 95 ( had a motherboard overheat once .. but nothing ran right then not just SP series stuff ..
So every SP wargaming possibility except the Mega Campiagns are either free or by somebody else other than matrix .. why folks rag on matrix for charging a fair prices for the mega campaign is beyong me .. and if it is shipping and postage well heck talk to the customs and postage folks for petes sake .. geeze louise

RichardTheFirst · Post by **RichardTheFirst** » Sun Nov 11, 2001 12:42 am

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1:
Richard you have to give Matrix credit where its due.

So when I say its not the fault of Matrix if they cant ship a new program on a cd, that is likely being piggy backed on the program they actually want to sell, to countries that enjoy oppressing consumers to an obscene sum of money. I say its no longer credibly decent to ask for more.

I'm not taking away any credits from Matrix, was just commenting your comments. To add to Matrix's credits: the proof they are concerned with feed-back is this very forum. The feed-back Matrix wants is not only from the gamers, it is also from THE CUSTOMERS. David Heath said above he is concerned with this problem. Good enough for me (for now <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> ).

What countries are you talking about? I think you are confusing countries with companies <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> , but never mind.

"Vini, vidi, vinci" - Iulius Cæsar

Scorpion_sk · Post by **Scorpion_sk** » Sun Nov 11, 2001 2:40 am

You´re getting sidetracked....the original question was about whether the mega-campaigns could be ESDs like Firefight. The answer was that ESD gives too much headache to be worth it.
The question is, why does Matrix have these existing ESDs then?

Another possibility besides ordering the cds together is that some fan sends the contents of the cd over the net....and the recipient pays to Matrix.
But I guess that won´t happen either...

Oh well. I just have to look into the alternatives. I´ll do what I can within reasonable limits to get the mega campaigns.

Perhaps I´ll even risk just ordering it, but only as a last resort. The combined price isn´t above a normal-priced game anyway I guess.But still....

Scorpion_sk · Post by **Scorpion_sk** » Sun Nov 11, 2001 2:43 am

Oh, of course I meant the price is not too high without the possible (and probable) customs, etc.

AmmoSgt · Post by **AmmoSgt** » Sun Nov 11, 2001 3:16 am

Richard no I meant countries like Portugal that increase the cost of the MC buy charging custom duties ..companies have no control over what countries charge for the campaigns on CD's entering their countries .... <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

RichardTheFirst · Post by **RichardTheFirst** » Sun Nov 11, 2001 4:37 am

Originally posted by AmmoSgt:
Richard no I meant countries like Portugal that increase the cost of the MC buy charging custom duties ..companies have no control over what countries charge for the campaigns on CD's entering their countries .... <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

I didn't like that at all:

1 - I answered with a quote to another person. Not you.

2 - When you mention my country please be carefull with your ignorance, it have limits - Portugal is a member of EC and our import taxes are the EC import taxes.

3 - Next time think before you write, OK?

Red Baron · Post by **Red Baron** » Sun Nov 11, 2001 5:10 am

Originally posted by RichardTheFirst:

I didn't like that at all:

1 - I answered with a quote to another person. Not you.

2 - When you mention my country please be carefull with your ignorance, it have limits - Portugal is a member of EC and our import taxes are the EC import taxes.

3 - Next time think before you write, OK?

Hi There..
Why not stop this here where it stands? Seems to me that things is getting a bit out of hand now
<img src="confused.gif" border="0"> When discusions like this on gets personal it´s tends to loose perspective <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
Why not agree upon the fact that the shipping cost is what they are and it prob. takes more than a small company like Matrix to change that!
IMHO WAW and what ever MC Matrix desides to release in the future is whorth every penny i have to pay in shipping cost, taxes and what ever!! The MCNA cost me all in all in the vicinity of 70-80$ and that isn´t a penny more than i´v to pay for a game in Danish shops..SO WHATS THE PROB!!????
I´v used 100+ hours and a cosiderable amount of money when i was on the "Lost victory" Team and in no way i get anything in the respect of "payback" cause of that, but instead i get the satisfaction of knowing that i´v contributed a tiny bit to this great game and infact this kind a game hasn´t the amount of customers need to bring it out on every corner of the world.
Let´s face it! This is niche kind a game only for us hardcore gamers;D
This comment isn´t to be taken personally, If so it isnt the intend..just my two cents..
Regards..Michael.

RichardTheFirst · Post by **RichardTheFirst** » Sun Nov 11, 2001 7:47 am

Red Baron: you make all the sense in the world. I admit I was personnal, but wouldn't you be if someone was talking in almost insultuous terms about Denmark? For me this discussion is over. Peace!

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Sun Nov 11, 2001 6:46 pm

Some will let a thing go, some wont (look at CNN to witness this effect). Anyways...

I have to stand up and say that Ammo Sgts comments looked fine to me, from a point of view that they didnt apear rude, offensive, or abusive of the tennents of good proper english usage (and yes I make a habit of demanding a high order of english skill level usage). If she responded to your comments on my posts, as if they were comments directed to her posts, that is entirely easy to sort out.
The fact that Ammo Sgt is a woman kinda gave me a knee jerk response to Richards remarks. Whether she missed a detail or not Richard, you were not remotely polite in how you dealt with her. Your response deserves a formal apology Richard.

I dont know all that much about Denmark from a current modern perspective. This is your chance to let us know (I am willing to listen).

I originally meant countries. I never meant companies.

Here in Canada, companies might possess considerable lobbying power (and good examples are Oil, Tobacco and Automotive), but the laws are still made by the country (which in turn influences all the companies operating within it).
If for instance I was offended by the service of Canada's mail system, would be a political matter. They are a crown corporation, which means they are not an independent company, but are in fact the country. When dealing with currency, while I may do all my business at a bank or finacial institution, they are all regulated by the nation and its laws. We also have a sea of independently operating companies that deal in shipping goods of one sort or another (often at a greatly inflated rate, which is the price of impatience in some cases).

Now its unfortunate. But a spade is a spade. Some counties are not equal to others when service to their population is the subject.

I wonder how hard it would be to get Mega Campaign into Kabul right now.

I know that I have heard alarming statements concerning some countries, the average North American would automatically think was immune to. But here in Canada and the US we take a few things for granted. The notion that the mail is sacred is second nature to us here in North America. The idea it could be routinely stolen, lost, or in some way not assured never occurs to us. I once read that mail is routinely "sold" in lots in Italy. I sure hope this is for mail that is unclaimed. Some of the items mentioned were outrageous additionally. This was an old news item though dating before any thoughts of EU ever existed.
Our naivete is perhaps the reason we are so stressed out lately over secure borders. We in North America are not used to our police forces carrying automatic weapons either.

A following comment was re iterated as well. Consumer traffic can sometimes be disproportinately represented. A big hassle is the dynamics of niche markets. I myself for instance, am bummed out that a lot of times the companies in the US dont serve Canada due to insufficient sales. I have to get right bent out of shape finding a store that can even locate a way to import copies of the reborn ASL Advanced Squad Leader game. When AH had its near death experience, it lost all its contacts in Canada it would appear. Now I consider it odd to find a store to buy the game at.
Matrix being online, is just as easily open to anyone on the planet where online forums are concerned. But that in no way makes it easy to get a product to some locales.

And of course,to acknowledge this thread wouldnt exist if the matter of ESDs wasnt mentioned (and you know, oddly enough, I am not fully sure what ESD spells out). But it was clearly revolving around getting the game to a remote interested party.

I hope this post hasnt been to lengthy (you should try talking to me in person, this is nothing heeh).

RichardTheFirst · Post by **RichardTheFirst** » Mon Nov 12, 2001 2:04 am

Les the Sarge,

It appears that there was a lot of misunderstandings in the communication but one thing I will not do is apologise for defending my country (Portugal not Denmark) against what I took at the time as an arrogant comment.

Being a gentleman myself, I tend to accept from women things that I don’t usually accept from a man. However my opinion in this matter is that being of the feminine sex (I didn’t know) should not entitle her to say whatever she wants.

The most serious of the misunderstandings did not come from me and so I will consider rectification of some things I said only after Ammo Sgt makes a simple correction that shouldn’t be very difficult for a lady. Until then I will not take one comma out of what I said.

I suggest from now on that if anything more about this painful subject needs to be said should be done through the personal messages feature.

Fredde · Post by **Fredde** » Mon Nov 12, 2001 3:04 am

Suggestion:

Add a personal licence thing to the game. You'd have to enter a code to get it going. Download for free, pay to get the code which actually lets you play the game.

Of course there's always hacker problems etc etc.. some idiot will put out a cheat to get past it, but overall, you might end up with a lot more paying customers, especially since the freight costs make the game almost double as expensive to countries overseas.

Bet this is an old idea.. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">