Ground Combat changes - not here yet?

[ADavidB]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

You really need to learn all the modifiers for LCU combat.

Look at the Terrain modifier of the Defender.
Look at the Fortification of the Defender.
Look at the HQ modifiers for both sides.
Look at the Leader modifers for both sides.
Look at the Experience modifier for both sides.
Is the attack a Shock Attack or not?

Then and only then can you have a true understanding of LCU combat.

Sorry Frag - but 2 days for the AI to take Hong Kong without any bombardments, air attacks, preliminary attacks or anything just doesn't jive. It tells me that the various numbers feeding into your factors listed above aren't right in the case of Hong Kong, which suggests that they might be equally incorrect in other cases. Otherwise I have to assume that the AI has "cheats" built in at the "historic" level.

Dave Baranyi

[Mr.Frag]

Sorry Frag - but 2 days for the AI to take Hong Kong without any bombardments, air attacks, preliminary attacks or anything just doesn't jive. It tells me that the various numbers feeding into your factors listed above aren't right in the case of Hong Kong, which suggests that they might be equally incorrect in other cases. Otherwise I have to assume that the AI has "cheats" built in at the "historic" level.

More importantly, what did YOU do with YOUR troops at Hong Kong? There are NO CHEATS in the AI at Historical, the cheats kick in at Hard where it peaks at you but still no combat mods. Next level up gets combat mods.

[ADavidB]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Sorry Frag - but 2 days for the AI to take Hong Kong without any bombardments, air attacks, preliminary attacks or anything just doesn't jive. It tells me that the various numbers feeding into your factors listed above aren't right in the case of Hong Kong, which suggests that they might be equally incorrect in other cases. Otherwise I have to assume that the AI has "cheats" built in at the "historic" level.

More importantly, what did YOU do with YOUR troops at Hong Kong? There are NO CHEATS in the AI at Historical, the cheats kick in at Hard where it peaks at you but still no combat mods. Next level up gets combat mods.

I didn't do a thing with them. Therefore, if the settings for each side are correct and represent the historical situation, the Brit/Canadian troops should have lasted longer. And I've started the scenario 4 times and gotten the same result each time.

Dave Baranyi

[Mr.Frag]

I didn't do a thing with them. Therefore, if the settings for each side are correct and represent the historical situation, the Brit/Canadian troops should have lasted longer. And I've started the scenario 4 times and gotten the same result each time.

Check your diff level, there is no way for Hong Kong to fall in 2 days.

Btw: Just how many units were there in the attack? Should Japan choose to swing all the troops from Canton into the fray, obviously the odds are completely different. But that of course has nothing to do with the *historical* troops used to take Hong Kong.

[ADavidB]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

I didn't do a thing with them. Therefore, if the settings for each side are correct and represent the historical situation, the Brit/Canadian troops should have lasted longer. And I've started the scenario 4 times and gotten the same result each time.

Check your diff level, there is no way for Hong Kong to fall in 2 days.

Btw: Just how many units were there in the attack? Should Japan choose to swing all the troops from Canton into the fray, obviously the odds are completely different. But that of course has nothing to do with the *historical* troops used to take Hong Kong.

Oh, so the AI isn't limited to historical operations at the beginning? Ah, that would explain things. In that case all bets are off.

Thanks -

Dave Baranyi

[Jim D Burns]

I am aware of the odds adjustments, but don't forget shock attacks actually double the attacker. So in clear terrain with no fortifications an attacking unit equal to a defending unit actually attacks at 2-1 odds and wins if they shock attack on day one. What possible basis in reality brings us to this kind of an advantage for the attacker during WWII?

I've never read an account of general combat during the war where a unit attacked at 1-1 odds and forced the defenders to retreat 60 miles. If this were a possible result that occurred sometimes I wouldn't be so concerned, but an attacker will always win in a perfectly even (read all other bonuses) 1-1 fight if he shock attacks on day one.

While it's obvious many of the testers like this about the game, I still think combat is far too quickly resolved in the game. Corp level battles should last weeks (if not months) before some level of decisive results are reached. China falling in 6 months is crazy, even if they are far less efficient than the Japanese.

On Guadalcanal the Marines outnumbered the Japanese 2-1 to 3-1 for most of the fighting there which lasted for months. I can't see the Japanese holding out for several weeks let alone months with our current combat results. Heck the intro to the combat section in the manual even agrees with me talking about how combat in the Pacific was seldom resolved without massive slow attrition battles wearing units down before victory was finally achieved.

Jim