OOBs

SPWaW is a tactical squad-level World War II game on single platoon or up to an entire battalion through Europe and the Pacific (1939 to 1945).

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heintz28
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Post by heintz28 »

Use the OOB Manager at http://jphz.tripod.com and
you wont have to have multiple installs of the game. And you can always return to the Original for PBEM or internet games.
The OOB manager will handle as many OOB's as you have disk space for <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

good luck
AmmoSgt
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Post by AmmoSgt »

I think the major problem with onboard Howitzers and the like ..also rocket launchers .. is the minimum range issues for fring indirect ..the game doesn't seem to have a minimum range for indirect fire weapons ..which means 155mm Hows on board could technically be used to fire indirect at a target just the other side of a hill 100 meters ( 2 hexes ) away ..not that i am advocating any changes in SPWAW ..but i hope issues like this are being looked at for CL/CA ... Direct fire .. yes SP's like M-12's and Hummels ect Direct fire at the ranges possible on a SPWAW map , but could they indirect fire at under a kilometer?? .. I don't think so?? but i don't have the tables available ..in a similar problem only reversed, 88's are only direct fire in the game , when in fact they had indirect fire capabilities ... yes the Brits and their 25 lbrs and US 105mm How and Possibly other Hows had a Direct fire capability ..but i am sure they had a minimum range of some significant distance that would make some indirect fire problematical if they were in fact onboard , given the size of the map .. these considerations would probably drastically effect multiple rocket launchers deployed on board .. some more than others ..and some would probably not have direct fire capabilities at all .. wulfraums did have direct fire capability but certainly not at 2 or even 4 hexes due to the physical arrangement on the launcher .. either rocket engines blasting back thru the other rounds or the rounds colideing with rounds in front of them ect ...( i think the front two could fire if the rear rockets weren't loaded .. Caliope's look like they could easily direct fire .but i don't know if they actually did for example ..
On a similar note .. since the game does handle complex angles in shell impact for , for example , armor penetration, perhaps some thought to the vertical axis that is possible with some guns could be looked at in direct fire , havng limits on firing at targets that are either lower or higher that exceed the combined angles of gun depresion or elevation and ground angle .. especially when hull down . again perhaps not in SPWAW but perhaps in CL/CA
When you consider minimum ranges for indirect fire alot of the desire to have arty onboard as an indirect fire weapon may disappear due to the lack of practical usefullness ..
As to the Ammo trucks ..they are an abstraction as it is, since in some armies individual Hows would have addition vechicles ( such as the US Army having usually 2 addition vehicles per gun, sometimes specialized Arty Ammo tracks sometimes simple 2 1/2 ton trucks for example ) supplying the guns .. other armies other arrangements ( consider a 155mm single gun needing 1 Duece and a half to carry maybe 60 rounds ) to see how abstracted the ammo truck actually is ..and yet to make it a point target that forces totally unrealistic deployment of arty into hexagonal clumps seems not to raise any questions ..
Better Modeling of the weapons characteristics and some adjustment of the span or range of supply of abstracted Ammo Trucks to allow for appropiate distances and arangement of guns might help things , or better a Towed How and adjacent fixed ammo dump, purchased as a combined unit , giving the option of two hexes of targets , either the gun that can be knocked out , or the ammo supply for the gun that can be knocked out with possible colateral damage .. could better model and subsequently detract from the desirability of having large caliber arty onboard on a map only 5 km in total depth ...
Perhaps having 155mm, and perhaps, depending on what firing tables say, maybe even 105 mm class Howitzers restricted to direct fire if onboard might be more realistic .. likewise the reverse for weapons like the SP 75mm Hows like on some Amtrac's and the M8 Scott SP 75mm that are currently restricted to direct fire and that actually had a rather close/short minimum range for indirect fire,could be allowed to indirect fire ...
This certainly would make Mortars ..especially the small infantry type mortars seem more useful and valuable and place them in a different perspective vis a vis the game..
If, as folks seemed to be insisting, that multiple mortars do not in fact do mulitple damage, and as i am suggesting Hows and arty type guns are doing what they in fact they never could do .. then somebody should be looking at these apparent functional mismodeling of what in fact are key weapons in the game ..and if not in SPWAW perhaps in CL/CA, in my humble opinion
"For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary periods, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which
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skukko
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Post by skukko »

to above:

Nice utility but it can't move scens and maps that are saved to same slots ( save my things above 600 ), *lbms nor *shps and mech.exes ...

mosh
salute

mosh

If its not rotten, shoot again
Colonel von Blitz
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 10:00 am
Location: Espoo, Finland

Post by Colonel von Blitz »

Originally posted by pax27:
BTW Colonel von Blitz, did I help at all in your German equipment in Czech OOB post???
Thanks pax27, your advice was the key to get everything work like I wanted to <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

I'm discussing at the moment with my friends and other PBEM opponents what they'd like to see changed in the OOB files. I think there will be more changes in addition to those mentioned in the first post <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Colonel von Blitz
--Light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak--
pax27
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Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2001 8:00 am
Location: Sweden

Post by pax27 »

Sounds good Colonel, keep us posted for other good changes you make.

And BTW, AmmoSgt obviously knows what he´s (she´s?) talking about, but I think people simply wanna get the artillery onboard for two reasons: You could get them as howitzers in your core force (with gained experience etc), and to feel that you actually manage them (and get to see them maybe).

my two cents (or whatever it is you americans say)
Colonel von Blitz
Posts: 234
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Location: Espoo, Finland

Post by Colonel von Blitz »

Originally posted by pax27:
Sounds good Colonel, keep us posted for other good changes you make.
I moved some german equipment (units that I've never or very rarely used) into Czech OOB and moved some equipment into German OOB just so that I can buy them with german national characteristics.

- Now gliders (DFS 230), R-Boot, all captured tanks and amphibious tanks has to be bought from Czech purchase screen.

- From german purchase screen one can now buy:
Fl Wg B-2(f) (flame-tank built from french tank?)
Panther F
Panther II
Tiger II P2Turm
12.8cm Pz Sfl V (quite like Nashorn, but with 128mm ATG)
Me 262A-2a JaBo

I also created couple of new units, at the moment they're just under development, but I wanted to include them. These are PzKpfw VII Löwe and E-100 <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> I know, these are more "what if" panzers, but that's just why I wanted to include them <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

Also, I'd like to include Kramer X-7 Rotkäppchen -AT missile, but I've yet to find enough data. Anyone with tech specs, please let me know <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Colonel von Blitz
--Light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak--
generalrichmond
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Post by generalrichmond »

Herr Von Blitzen: interesting thread. I read it every day and learn a little more.

SgtAmmo: I really like the points you are making. Things I'd not considered. At this point, aside from mortar units, I think I'll keep all my arty offboard (as far as what I purchase). I *would* like to see some of these things addressed, but then realize that sooo many gamers enjoy doing crazy things.
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Paul Vebber
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Post by Paul Vebber »

Mortar multipliers were removed in eth v 7 OOBs. Mortar units have multiple weapons like OBA. Not the best solution, but makes things more transparant.
TotenkopfZZ
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Location: Cedar Falls, USA

Post by TotenkopfZZ »

If you are modifying the Oob then you should be aware of a super weapon built into the game you might want to fix. In the Anzac OoB, the weapon #178, 30 cal CMG (x2), slot #3 on the Lee Mk II has an HE kill factor of 120!!! This Infantry killer can wipe out full squads in one shot. It is also the same in many of the Allied OoBs. UK #178, US #186, Belgium #178 to name a few.

In the Oob modifying I have done before I added such things as horse teams to Howitzers, Jeeps to pull AT guns and such. One especially handy was a company of Paratroopers with Air transports included in the unit. One click shopping here instead of trying to figure out exactly how many Douglas C47's you need for all those troopers.

I would not recommend messing with any of the weapons stats (except the one above) by adding APCR ammo or higher Gunnery stats. The balance of the game can be severely undone then.
Colonel von Blitz
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Location: Espoo, Finland

Post by Colonel von Blitz »

Originally posted by TotenkopfZZ:
If you are modifying the Oob then you should be aware of a super weapon built into the game you might want to fix. In the Anzac OoB, the weapon #178, 30 cal CMG (x2), slot #3 on the Lee Mk II has an HE kill factor of 120!!! This Infantry killer can wipe out full squads in one shot. It is also the same in many of the Allied OoBs. UK #178, US #186, Belgium #178 to name a few.
Hmm, this I will check out. Thanks for letting me know <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> 120 HE kill sounds like a little mistake, though almost all twin/quad machineguns do similar damage...German Pz I is a real infantry killer.

I would not recommend messing with any of the weapons stats (except the one above) by adding APCR ammo or higher Gunnery stats. The balance of the game can be severely undone then.

I haven't been touching that much to weapons stats. Actually I've just modified the 380mm Railroad gun stats a bit to give it more punching power. I wasn't going to modify weapons to make super-germans or something like that.

And what comes to game play balance, my modifications to OOBs are not meant to be used by players who do NOT know how to play SPWaW realistically. I want to provide the possibility of buying for example finnish Armored ship (panssarilaiva) if I or someone else NEEDS it for some PBEM battle <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

This takes me to other issue, I do NOT test these modifications against AI, because IMHO playing against AI is a waste of a good strategy game. I play only PBEM battles against selected opponents and these OOB modifications are made with cooperation with them <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> If anyone here is interested testing my modified OOB files, I'll put this on my SPWaW sounds site when I think they're more close to ready <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Sound-files are still there for all of you to download:

http://www24.brinkster.com/vonblitz/spwawsounds.htm

Colonel von Blitz

[ November 10, 2001: Message edited by: Colonel von Blitz ]</p>
--Light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak--
pax27
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Post by pax27 »

Also, I'd like to include Kramer X-7 Rotkäppchen -AT missile, but I've yet to find enough data. Anyone with tech specs, please let me know
A few links that should be intresting, some are in german but it´s easy to make out the simpler data you might need:
German Secret Weapons of WWII
Luftwaffe, German Page
Another German Page
English Site About Panzerfausts

Hope this helps, I didn´t check them that carefully.

BTW, I already use your SPWaW sounds Colonel and there really good!

[ November 10, 2001: Message edited by: pax27 ]</p>
Colonel von Blitz
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Post by Colonel von Blitz »

Originally posted by pax27:
BTW, I already use your SPWaW sounds Colonel and there really good!
I don't want to take credit of something I haven't done. Those excellent soundfiles are not made by me but Peregrine Falcon <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Colonel von Blitz

PS. Thanks for those sites, I'm familiar with first one, but the others were new ones for me. Thanks!

[ November 10, 2001: Message edited by: Colonel von Blitz ]</p>
--Light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak--
kao16
Posts: 251
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Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

Post by kao16 »

Originally posted by Colonel von Blitz:


Also, I'd like to include Kramer X-7 Rotkäppchen -AT missile, but I've yet to find enough data. Anyone with tech specs, please let me know <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Colonel von Blitz


I have tried some numbers for the X-7 (under V4.5). There is a description and short discussion of how they worked at:

http://www.matrixgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=26&t=000056
Colonel von Blitz
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Post by Colonel von Blitz »

Thanks, with that info I was able to create at least some sort of X-7. Gotta still look for info to get it more "realistic" <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

I also decided to modify Wurfrahmen ranges, but I ran into a little problem: though I assigned the minimum range for a weapon (using the max APCR value), it still allows player to fire to closer ranges than assigned. I wanted to give 300 metres or 6 hexes for min range, so I used 24 for max APCR value. Despite this, I can still fire indirect bombardments through Bombardment-menu...

Colonel von Blitz
--Light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak--
pax27
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Post by pax27 »

Colonel von Blixt, I´d love to check your german related OOB´s out. If you want to share em, post here and I´ll give you my e-mail adress (although I think I have it avaliable in my profile).
Colonel von Blitz
Posts: 234
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Post by Colonel von Blitz »

Originally posted by pax27:
Colonel von Blixt, I´d love to check your german related OOB´s out. If you want to share em, post here and I´ll give you my e-mail adress (although I think I have it avaliable in my profile).
Your profile has email-address...if it's working, you should have some mail already <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Colonel von Blitz
--Light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak--
Colonel von Blitz
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Location: Espoo, Finland

Post by Colonel von Blitz »

UPDATE! These are changes made to my OOBs so far. I would still need some help to get the minimum range setting to work properly. At the moment howitzers and rockets fire indirect bombardments closer than indicated with minimum range setting. Ideas to correct this, anyone?? Anyway, here I go at the moment:

- gave (almost) every HQ a command car.

- gave Elite Recon -status to all scouts and to FOs and FO vehicles which didn't have it for some reason.

- created Mobile FO (1 x Forward Observer + 1 x utility vehicle) for several countries.

- removed 'multipliers' from mortars, now they are more reasonably priced. However, players should note historical doctrines when using mortars!

- edited German SPA platoon to SPA Battery, which had six SPA vehicles. Lowered every nations SPA prices just a little bit (they were expensive, so I never saw them used in PBEM games, maybe this helps)

- reduced japanese 50mm knee mortar accuracy from 28 -> 8 (8 is the usual accuracy given to small mortars). Previous setting made it too good an AT weapon considered that it is supposed to be a mortar.

- removed japanese 75mm Mtn Bty (range of the 75mm T94 gun is 25 hexes, making it useless OB weapon).

- reduced .30 cal MG (x2) HE kill value from incredible 120(!!) -> 23 (usual twin mount HE kill 20 - 24).

- reduced quad .50 cal HE kill value from 32 to 28. (it's supposed to be a meat chopper, but I wanted to tone it down just a little bit)

- edited german 37mm PAK stats. Made one 37mm PAK available from 36-41 without APCR ammo, and the other is now available 42-44 with 20 APCR shots.

- created unarmed bunker that has carry capacity of about 160 (enough room for 1 - 1½ platoon). I gave enough armor to withstand arty. Men get out if one shoots at it directly, but they stay inside even if being hit with indirect weapons.(available in Czech purchase screen)

- made Train available in the Norway OOB.
(available in Norway purchase screen)

- made 380mm Railroad Gun available in the Italian OOB and I also modified it a bit.
(available in Italy purchase screen)

- created Siege Howitzer, available in the Netherlands OOB. I used Napalm class weapon to give this gun enough killing power, hence the flame-effect.
(available in Netherlands purchase screen)

- removed allied names from japanese planes (now Ki-43 is Hayabusa, not Oscar etc.).

- moved some german equipment (units that I've never or very rarely used) into Czech OOB and moved some equipment into German OOB just so that I can buy them with german national characteristics.

Following (ex-german) units must now be bought from Czech purchase screen:

gliders (DFS 230)
R-Boot
Focke-Wulf 189 Uhu
all captured tanks
amphibious tanks

In addition, one can now purchase from Czech purchase screen:
German 170mm Howitzers
Pz VII Löwe (uses King Tiger -icon)
E-100 (uses Maus -icon)
Arado 234 bomber
several ammo carriers
several wheeled and tracked SPAA vehicles
plus much more!


Next new units can now be bought from German purchase screen:

Fl Wg B-2(f)
Pz 39H RAK (edited to have 4 HE rockets)
Panther F
Panther II
Tiger II P2Turm
12.8cm Pz Sfl V (quite like Nashorn, but with 128mm ATG)
10.5cm K18 auf Panzer Selbstfahrlafette IVa
SdKfz 231 6-rad
Me 262A-2a JaBo
SS machinegun section and platoon (elite)
SS inf-AT section (elite)
Kramer X-7 Rotkäppchen Anti-Tank missile
Stuka zu Fuss (6 HE rockets with range of 2000m)
Stuka zu Fuss (6 flame rockets with range of 2200m)

I have not that much knowledge on allied equipment, so anyone knowing flaws on the allied side units, let me know <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Colonel von Blitz
--Light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak--
asgrrr
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Post by asgrrr »

Sounds good. I always love to hear how people are using their creativity... within reason of course.

Did you create german SMG units already? I did, and also I added german semiauto rifles, Gew 41/43. Similar in game terms to each other and to other large semiauto rifles in the game. I created a german squad that uses it, from june 1941. Also note that captured Tokarev rifles were popular, and with similar stats there is no need to create seperate weapons. This squad I classify as medium infantry, as do I the SMG squad. In each regular platoon, then, there is one "medium" squad, either SMG or semiauto.
Something else I did the other day also: Soviet guards SMG squad carrying a US bazooka. Appears jan44, class medium inf, rarity 3 (never appear elsewhere). I include one in every guards company. Before they appear, or when they run out because of rarity, their place is taken by a regular SMG squad (also medium inf). Would have liked it to be elite inf class, but that gave too much trouble. In any case, the regular squads also get the +10 bonus.

One question: Why flame to the siege thing? Can't you get the desired mess by warhead and kill alone?
Never hate your enemy.
It clouds your judgement.
kao16
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Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

Post by kao16 »

Colonel von Blitz

Are you planning on posting your OOBs to a web site sometime soon?

alternatively could you post them to me please?
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Major Destruction
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Post by Major Destruction »

Here's a few for you:

All HQ units should be given special flag 11
Canada Mustang unit 202 should have speed 6 (not 7)
Fin HMG's ned to be reclassed. Make all ski HMG's machine gun class and all other HMG's heavy machine gun class.
Give SW machine gun code x3 also the MG that is used in the coastal forts.
Not perfect but better.
Nationalise all crewmen.
Is the m36 Jackson too early? Should it not be available in late 1944?
All Recon formations should have special flag 1 (or 11)
They struggled with a ferocity that was to be expected of brave men fighting with forlorn hope against an enemy who had the advantage of position......knowing that courage was the one thing that would save them.

Julius Caesar, 57 BC
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