No Box/Manual a mistake?

[lawrence]

Oh... also: A staff member has posted that you (the consumer) can NOT burn a back-up copy. Which means pay extra or if you get a new computer system, have a corrupted file, system crash, whatever you lose you game and money. That ain't right....

[PeckingFury]

If I kept the box to every game Ive ever owned I wouldnt have room for much of anything else. I prefer the DD and the pdf manual, update the manual with a simple download. Alt-tab may be extremely hard for some but I prefer it over the printed manual. Besides I play the games with very little light flipping thru a 200 page manual by monitor light is unthinkable.

[Redleg47]

Ok, I admit it, I collect things. I have tons of artwork all over my walls, in fact, in my "game room" I have wallpapered two walls with all of the game boxes from all my games over the years. I also have a serious pc cd game collection. I don't like burning cds and to this have never burned one cd. I like my game CDs with cool pictures on them so they look great in my game library. I also have postered all over my walls the maps and other bonuses that have come with games over the years (such as the maps/posters from Europa Universalis, Kingmaker, Praetorians, Task Force 1942, Chef De Bataillon).

I make good money and am willing to pay for the things I like. In fact I used to be legal counsel for a number of game design companies just like Matrix. I applaud your purchasing options. I WILL buy your games available with a box and CD. I will not buy something that is strictly available as a download.

Too bad manuals are not available, I've gone through two cartridges printing the manual for LGAA.

If you really wanted to please this customer you would make some of the digital art from your games available as screensavers and desktops - a nice, easy bonus that would please a few of us. [&o][&o]

-Redleg - looking forward to La Grande Armee on the Danube

[Arnir]

ORIGINAL: lawrence

Oh... also: A staff member has posted that you (the consumer) can NOT burn a back-up copy. Which means pay extra or if you get a new computer system, have a corrupted file, system crash, whatever you lose you game and money. That ain't right....

Where was that? Everything I've seen has been the opposite from Matrix. You are allowed to burn the download onto a CD.

[Marc von Martial]

ORIGINAL: lawrence
After purchasing Uncommon Valor, I shortly found it on a retailer's shelf at the same price and box/manual...

Please don't take my comments as overly negative. I love Matrix Games, but will not support any product where an "additional" charge is required on top of full retail price for the complete product. I seriously doubt that WITP would be marketed on a retailer's shelf for a price sticker of $80!!! $69.95 is pushing the upper limit of fair market value - which I'd be willing to pay.

Uncommon Valor was allways bundled with box and inlay card, the added printed Players Guide was an addon to the v2.0 version of UV.

WITP wouldn´t have gone retail for 9.99$ even. There is no space left on the shelves for wargames like this. This is an 200% niche title that only the hardest grognards play. The ammount of work the went into it and the ammount of sales we figure it will make justify the current price tag IMHO. You have to be able to break even.

[Marc von Martial]

ORIGINAL: wodin

I mean cant you just buy a boxed game like HTTR with out having also to pay for the digital download.

Otherwise I can see this being a rather expensive way to buy a product.

You pay for the game and then you have all of the options I mentioned above.

[Marc von Martial]

ORIGINAL: wodin


I think if you take the option with a box and CD aswell as a DD then it will be more than $10.

Why not have an option at a cheaper rate of just a box and CD? So your telling me that if you buy the boxed game then the DD will be for free?

Once again, you pay for the game. DD, DD+CD, DD+CD+Box are only options. When you select DD+CD for example then nobody is forcing you to download actually [;)]. You could also replace the term "DD" with simply "product".

[Marc von Martial]

ORIGINAL: lawrence

Oh... also: A staff member has posted that you (the consumer) can NOT burn a back-up copy. Which means pay extra or if you get a new computer system, have a corrupted file, system crash, whatever you lose you game and money. That ain't right....

Exactly the opposite is correct. Of course you ARE allowed to burn a copy for personal backup purposes.

Can you show me the thread where the staff member sayed that you´re not allowed to brun a personal backup copy?

[Marc von Martial]

ORIGINAL: Redleg47

Ok, I admit it, I collect things. I have tons of artwork all over my walls, in fact, in my "game room" I have wallpapered two walls with all of the game boxes from all my games over the years. I also have a serious pc cd game collection. I don't like burning cds and to this have never burned one cd. I like my game CDs with cool pictures on them so they look great in my game library.

I make good money and am willing to pay for the things I like. In fact I used to be legal counsel for a number of game design companies just like Matrix. I applaud your purchasing options. I WILL buy your games available with a box and CD. I will not buy something that is strictly available as a download.

If you really wanted to please this customer you would make some of the digital art from your games available as screensavers and desktops - a nice, easy bonus that would please a few of us. [&o][&o]

That´s exactly why I "forced" the management into the "box on demand " option [;)] I think the same way. I wan´t a box on my shelf or better I want the option to have it if I want it.

[lawrence]

Exactly the opposite is correct. Of course you ARE allowed to burn a copy for personal backup purposes.

Can you show me the thread where the staff member sayed that you´re not allowed to brun a personal backup copy?

Marc - After going hunting through threads and carefully reading this time... I stand corrected. I had thought we were prohibited from "burning" our own copies which we are not. This entirely changes the issue. I not only stand corrected, but stand by my prior statement that I love Matrix games!!! This misconception was the only thing that I took issue with, and I was wrong.

Now once that blush settles down a bit, I hope you don't mind if I go grab my credit card!

regards,
Larry

[wodin]

So in effect if HTTR was sold as DD box and game it would cost no more than it costs now which is boxed game only.

Thats very good value. Thanks for clearing that up.

[RealChuckB]

Hi,

I want to mention an (huge) advantage of DD that was not discussed yet (as far as I can see at least):

No more CD-related copy protection!

For me, since I currently only have a laptop, this is one great thing.
I started playing computer games in the early eighties and so in the beginning I always had to juggle with diskettes (or even tapes). First with 5 1/4, then with 3 1/2. Then, in the nineties with larger HDs coming up, you only had to touch the diskettes once: For installation.
Afterwards, everything was on the HD, you could start any program immediatly without searching for the respective media - GREAT!

Then the CD came up and the old juggling game started again ... [:(]

Now, if you only have a Laptop without a CD Rom drive installed, you cannot play the games that depend on the CD being in the drive while playing. Actually, that was one reason, why I never looked into Korsun Pocket. It is possible to install the "No CD" files, but I, as a honest customer, hate to visit these questionable sites to have me enjoy my purchases ... (and, additionally, some games are not covered).

With regard to the manual: I LOVE good manuals. But they have to be in a useful format. For example, after opening the HTTR box and seeing the manual, I immediately looked for a printable PDF format, because this manual (in my opinion) was too small and would not stay open on the table while playing the tutorials.
Another possibility is (although it is --sadly-- only seldom used) is to update the (electronic) manual with the patches, because I hate to read a manual together with 4-5 Amendments that came later with the patches.

Just my 2 cents!

Chuck

[Hexed Gamer]

Manuals are not always inherently "useful" is my take on it.

I thought the manual for The Operational Art of War was perhaps the most detailed yet most pointless example I have encountered yet.

The manual for the old game M1 Tank Platoon is a great example of a weird way to buy a military hardware technical reference hehe.

I have the Strategic Command manual printed out in standard 8.5 x 11 pages size and in a duo tang folder. Must be the only decently readable wargame manual I have handy at the momment.

Been wanting to indulge a full print out of the Steel Panthers manual just for completeness (there are always things one misses of forgets). But at 240 pages, that is going to be quite a hefty print out at the printers (I have a 12 dollar quote for it in B&W though).

[RealChuckB]

Hexed,

I have at least 2 rows of my bookshelf filled with the real good manuals and strategy guides (there are not that many, though), even of games I don't play anymore and don't even have installed.

The TOAW was not THAT bad in my opinion, and I agree about M1 Tank Platoon. I think that all old Microprose Manuals were VERY good (I for example still have the manual of "Taskforce 1942" --great game, by the way-- on the shelf, together with a smaller accompanying "Identification Booklet" that also served as a copy protection)

The two manuals of "Across the Rhine" by MicroProse were also top notch (although not in a good paper quality and the game was REALLY bad). I loved (almost) all Jane's manuals!

The original binder of Falcon 4.0 was fantastic too. Unforgettable are the "Their finest hour" and "Secrect Weapons of the Luftwaffe" manuals of Lucasfilm ...

I could go for another paper probably ...

Chuck

[wodin]

I currently have HTTR strategy guide, SPWAW manual, KP players manual,UV manual. Bombing the reich manual and Battle of britian manual all of which need preinting out. I find the PDF format a pain as to read it you must be at the PC and you cant read whilst playing. I have just bought a printer Canon i560x but as I know I ill end up with sheets and sheets of A4 everywhere Id rather go to a printers who will print and bind at A3 size which will be perect but expensive. I will do it though.

[RealChuckB]

ORIGINAL: wodin

I currently have HTTR strategy guide, SPWAW manual, KP players manual,UV manual. Bombing the reich manual and Battle of britian manual all of which need preinting out. I find the PDF format a pain as to read it you must be at the PC and you cant read whilst playing. I have just bought a printer Canon i560x but as I know I ill end up with sheets and sheets of A4 everywhere Id rather go to a printers who will print and bind at A3 size which will be perect but expensive. I will do it though.

Wodin,

You are right about reading PDFs on the screen - although this is probably the best available format, reading on the screen just isn't the same as reading form good ol' paper ...
I have to admit that I can print out on high quality laser printers (B&W) for free and are therefore not concerned about the additional costs (which are quite substantial when using a Ink jet printer ...)
Of course I would prefer high quality (color) manuals in letter or A4 format with spiral binding delivered with the games ... but this is probably something for the special wishlist together with World Peace, Lottery jackpot, eternal life etc ... [:D]

Chuck

[Hexed Gamer]

What I meant about the TOAW manual, was it talked and talked and talked, but really didn't say anything useful

[Chijohnaok2]

The only problem I have with PDF files is you can't curl up in bed with them or sit on the throne in the throne room and peruse them. Unless of course you print them out and put them in a binder. I always liked a good manual and a colorful map with my games, back in the days of SSI and some of their wargames the maps came laminated, like with Gettysburg and Antietam and Carrier Force and you could use a grease pensil and mark all over them and then erase, ahhh the good ole days of superior customer service.

Ravinhood----have you considered the possibility of loading the manual PDF into a laptop or PDA? You could the "peruse" the manual on your throne or where ever else you feel the need to "peruse". [;)]

[dinsdale]

ORIGINAL: Hexed Gamer

What I meant about the TOAW manual, was it talked and talked and talked, but really didn't say anything useful

I agree with that. They explained every nuance of the game..............in isolation with no tie in on how things worked together or how to actually play the damned game. IIRC they also left some of the details out which described things such as supply and penatlies.

[RealChuckB]

ORIGINAL: dinsdale

ORIGINAL: Hexed Gamer

What I meant about the TOAW manual, was it talked and talked and talked, but really didn't say anything useful

I agree with that. They explained every nuance of the game..............in isolation with no tie in on how things worked together or how to actually play the damned game. IIRC they also left some of the details out which described things such as supply and penatlies.

Yes, I agreee - it's a shame. TOAW is one game that I would love to love ... [:D] I am sure it is a great game and it covers so many different conflicts that it should be able to accompany almost every reading you do in the field of military history of the last 100 years.
I still plan to give it another try and hope I'll succeed this time (even the graphics are still ok under today's standard)

Chuck