Baddest Battleship

[mavraam]

I appologize if this has already been posted.

Baddest BB's of WWII:

http://www.combinedfleet.com/baddest.htm#categories

Who's my favorite? See Avatar! [:D]

[Mr.Frag]

Always got a kick out of his breakdown, but I discount the Iowa simply because it is an entire generation beyond everything else in the list.

Hardly fair to compare it against the others.

Now if you want to add something interesting to the mix, factor in a closing / fleeing scenario when some turrets can not be brought to bear and adjust the numbers. Suddenly old tubs like the Rodney look pretty attractive. [;)]

[mavraam]

Always got a kick out of his breakdown, but I discount the Iowa simply because it is an entire generation beyond everything else in the list.

True, but the Iowa class did exist and fight in WWII. Its not like we're talking about a nuclear sub or an AEGIS class cruiser.

What's wrong with building bigger better machines? Isn't that what winning a war is all about? [:D]

[furious]

The Iowa may be top in your estimate but for sheer sex appeal HMS Rodney and HMS Nelson wipe the floor with anything else.

[Nikademus]

nothing is more sexier than a battleship with a tripod masts. Ah the golden age of Dreadnoughts. No woosie carriers around to hog the glory [;)]

[barbarrossa]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

nothing is more sexier than a battleship with a tripod masts. Ah the golden age of Dreadnoughts. No woosie carriers around to hog the glory [;)]

I love those old warships. As for the baddest....well I'm hardly objective[:D]

[Mr.Frag]

True, but the Iowa class did exist and fight in WWII.

Oh, not debating that, but it really is the only BB to come into play with the knowledge that air power was now king and was altered to fit the bill. All the other BB's really predate air power so comparing post air power to pre air power is not really fair.

The Iowa class would fit in nicely with post war Russian monsters, it is beyond overkill for pre-war designs.

Only the Bis/Tirp really are close to being fair to compare and they were built still within the *fudged* treaty rules.

Japan is just not worth looking at because they had to beg/borrow all the materials to make them [8|]

[Nikademus]

visiting the Texas remains the highlight of my preserved warships visits [:D]

[furious]

Quite agree. I've nothing against carriers as such, they were okay when they kept things fair and limited themselves to HMS Hermes size, but 80 planes onboard! That's just not cricket

[mavraam]

Oh, not debating that, but it really is the only BB to come into play with the knowledge that air power was now king and was altered to fit the bill. All the other BB's really predate air power so comparing post air power to pre air power is not really fair.

Good point. Not really fair to take the AA into acount in the comparison IMHO. Had the Yamato been designed later, I'm sure it would have been equiped with a lot more AA as well. Wasn't that ultimately its demise? Taken out by air IIRC?

I'm partial to the Iowa because when I was 8, we took a field trip to Des Moines (capitol of Iowa) and right there in the main floor of the capitol building was a huge scale model of the USS Iowa and a full size barrel from one of its 16 inch guns. It left quite an impression on me. I snuck away from the rest of the group while they looked at boring stuff like the Governor's office and stared at the thing for what seemed like hours. It started my interest in WWII which still haunts me to this day!

[Nikademus]

i may get to see the Missouri (and the Arizona) in Oct.......fingers crossed [&o]

[barbarrossa]

The Arizona memorial is the one place I've never been that I have to go to before I die.

[The Gnome]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

i may get to see the Missouri (and the Arizona) in Oct.......fingers crossed [&o]

The New Jersey is right across the river from me in Philly. I have no excuse but laziness for not visiting her yet. You get a good view of her when taking the Ben Franklin Bridge bewtween Phila. and Jersey.

[Nikademus]

hopefully i wont get (nearly) arrested this time out [;)]

[The Gnome]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

hopefully i wont get (nearly) arrested this time out [;)]

Oh this story I *have* to hear!

[tiredoftryingnames]

Wisconsin is down the street from where I work with it's guns pointing right into all the office buildings.

[mdiehl]

I think throwing Iowa into the mix is perfectly valid. There were what... five years or so... separating the entire bunch with respect to the dates that the basic designs were approved, and all were drawing upon knowledge of architecture, metallurgy, and ballistics in general widely known at the time. I see the comparisons as valid and interesting especially to the extent that they shed light on whole philosophies of design.

Japanese designs. Crude application of lots of metal.

German. Overdesigned in the mid deck armor protection and underdesigned for aircraft protection.

US. Lavishly expensive. Caviar in every category. Optimized for efficiency in almost every way. Really just a supersizing of the SoDak design, IMO. The use of dual purpose 5" guns rather than separate AA and Anti-DD/Torpedo Boat defenses was a brilliant economy of design that maximized function per unit of weight.

I'm not too impressed by Rodney although she looks cool. Too much firepower forward to use all the guns at once as I recall. Those 16" guns might have served KGV better.

[carnifex]

Of course the Yamato remains the greatest battleship of all time simply on the merits that it was the only battleship ever sent into space to fight the evil Gamilons. None of your fancy 16" slug throwers can compare to the awesome power of the Wave Motion Gun.

[Nikademus]

well first off, you have to understand that the Texas was the first battleship i'd ever visited. I've been a battleship "fanboy" since, oh the age of 8 so this trip (yeah i booked an entire flight and took vacation just do this one thing) had me stoked behind even what a couple of Red Bull's and a quad latte could manage.

Thus my enthusiasm was shall we say, rather excessive to say the least. [:D]

off limits areas? pish posh i say! (and i did) Armed with sword and magic helmut, i began my quest to catalog all that which was the Texas. (ok, actually it was armed with flashlight and disposible camera) Given the rightiousness of my cause it was only a matter of time before the powers that be got tipped off that there was a subversive type running around the ship, "opening up hatches and peeking through doorways" (quote/unquote) Specifically someone saw me attempting to crawl under a metal screen blocking access to Turret III's magazine. (an as-yet, un-restored area of the ship) and ratted on me.

Enter a lovable character who I like to call "General Billy-Bob" (Billy for short) Intercepted in a crew berthing compartment on the Second Deck, there followed a 10 minute session where i got a thorough dressing down, the highlights including a disertation on the dangers of opening hatches and entering off limits areas and the illegalness of forcing open barriers meant to protect the public.

I was then advised in rather strong language not to attempt further intrustions on penalty of being thrown off the ship (not necessarily using the gangway employed to get on), and/or involving the Houston Police dept.

Had "Billy" known that in addition to trying to get into the beforementioned magazine, i'd also climbed on top of two main gun turrets, the main conning tower, sneaked down onto the platform deck to examine more closely the ship's recipricating engine, climbed up onto the upper bridge and last but not least.....climbed up and entered the ship's forward tripod mast to snap a photo from the highest reachable point on the ship......EMT crews might also have required involvement since his veins were already popping dangerously out from his large neck and forhead.

As it was i said sorry, resisted an impulse to salute (he was wearing a nicely authentic officer's uniform) and then proceeded to attempt entry into Turret III's gunhouse, only to be thwarted by an imposingly large padlock. (knew i forgot something in my explorers pack......a lock cutter!) [:'(]

All in all a fun day.

[McNaughton]

Since the question asked, which is the baddest WW2 battleship, then the Iowa class is COMPLETELY valid.

However, had the question stated, which was the badest WW2 battleship of an 'era'.

For example, which was the best post-war battleship (1918-1930)

Which was the best pre-war treaty battleship (1930-1940)

Which was the best post-treaty battleship (1940-1942)

Which was thte best post-treaty battleship built after war experience (1941-1944)

When we ask questions like this, then we can start putting things into 'reality', to find that very few nations built post-treaty battleships, let alone built with war expereince.

The Yamato and Bismark (Should it have been, the Tiger class as well) were indeed post treaty battleships, but were built with very little understanding of what war they would be fighting, and suffered SEVERELY for this. The Iowa was in a totally different generation than any other class, as it was built at a time where the weaknesses of all battleships were fully apparant, and the lessons could be applied.

It isn't fair to compare the Iowa, and say the King George V class, as both are generations apart, with one class facing severe size restrictions, while the other doesn't and was built with modern war experience.

So, basically, the original question, Which was the badest WW2 battleship, was already answered before it was asked.