Newbie questions re planes and troops

[RealChuckB]

Hi,

I have two questions while playing my first (longer) UV scenario as the allies for learning purposes:

1. Different types of planes
There are probably different opinions on the best altitude planes (especially bombers) should be used for attacking ships or ground targets ... But: is there kind of a majority view? To be honest, I am not that type of player who likes to do 100 test runs and I'm more than willing to benefit from the wisdom of the elders ... (UV-wise, that is) [;)]

2. Troops
While moving around ships seems to pretty straightforward, I am still a bit lost with regard to troops ... There are some troops in Australia that refuse to board my ships to Port Moresby and there are different responsible headquarters. I don't think I understand the difference between Engineers and Base troops (they seem to be engineers too) and don't know if I am suppose to leave them at he base or ship them around. Then for example are two engineer units (air?) located at the north and south end of the island where Noumea is located on, are they of any use there or should I send them someplace else? What troops do people here ship for example (a) to an existing base like Port Moresby or (b) to a "soon-to-be-a-base" like Lunga (if there are no enemies yet).

Thanks a lot!

Chuck

[Tuli Vapaa]

1, Considering plane altitudes, I only have couple of tricks. A) Dive bombing shipping. Use over 15'000 ft, as the squadrons attack in groups of 9, instead of 4 and that improves possibility of getting a bomb on heavily defended target (a Warship), even if they lose four or five palnes. Of course, if you are sure that only thing you are attacking is transports 10'000 ft is better as your flight of SBD's make more attack runs.

On ground targets, here's a tip, Count foward firing guns on your attackers. Making a attack on airfield at 100 ft, more guns you have firing foward, more casaulties you are going to cause on enemy troops. Last turn in my experimental game agains AI I made two air attacks: first was 150+, 4 engine (Mainly B-17) raid against Rabaul (from Lunga) flying at 8000 ft and other was 70+ B-25J raid against Port Moresby at 100 ft (from Cooktown). While Rabaul had more airbase and supply hits, it only had 450 casaulties, while my B-25's starfing anything that moved, killed 1450 enemy troops. Thats about half a brigade.

2. Some troops in Australia belong to Northern Command. While you can use them in Australia, your political masters are so worried about Jap invasion, that you can't transport them via sea or air. So it's walking along coast for these boys.

[RealChuckB]

Thanks a lot!

Chuck

[Tuli Vapaa]

Base troops are troops that have aviation support personel with them. While both they and engineer unit do have engineers attached, base units usually have less, as part of their unit is dedicated to aircraft maintenance. More airplanes than aviation support personel in a base and some of your aircraft are 'we fix them when we have time'- repairing mode.

Engineers that don't have aviation support personel with them come in two variations, Combat- and Non combat. If engineer unit don't have an assault value, it's basicly just bunch of construction workers. They can build your bases and fortifications, but are useless in combat. If they have an assault value, they are combat engineers and your best friend when making an assault, as they have flamethrowers and bangoleres to reduce enemy fortifications fast.

Some of (my) ideas about troop use.

There is three engineering units 'lose' in New Caledonia at start of the game. Two of them, middle- and northern tip of the island I usually walk to Noumea and send to Luganville to build that base up. One unit imidiately east of Noumea is Americ Divisions Combat engineer battalion. That is saved for later in games against AI, or sent to Lunga in PBEM-games.

As what I sent to those bases.. Well against AI, I usually hold on to Port Moresby, so I sent them everything I can get in with acceptable loses, while don't care one or the other about Lunga. On the other hand, against human it's reversed. Reasons are simple; Against Humans, PM is not really that good investment, it can be taken with two divisions Jap's have, even with two- or three regimental combat teams could possibly do it. Not enough resources to ferry two divisions worth of forces there, so... I don't empty it, but I don't ferry troops there like mad either and am prepeared to evacuate them if needed. Guadalcanal is another matter. IJN CAN not be allowed to have Lunga. Why? Same reason why there was fierce fighting in 1942. It's within bomber range of Noumea. Betty's and Nells reach Noumea from Lunga and if any size of airport is build by human IJN-opponent, no ship can be left in Noumea port. So every soldier that stays upright (On third try), is sent to this island at beginning of the game.

[crsutton]

On air attacks. Do some reading and use real historical tactics. You can't go wrong with that.

Let common sense dictate. Would you send bombers to attack a well defended base, with plenty of supply and AA assets? Yes of course, you have to. But if you send them in at 1000 ft, you can pretty much expect to get slaughtered. Attacking a major base. Start out high and reduce your heights as you reduce the base. You can tell when a base is running out of supply as the AA slackens.

Likewise would you send medium bombers in at 100 feet to skip bomb a heavily escorted warship TF? Not really. But a lightly defended transport TF is another story. Low lever attacks are the only way to go.

I have never bought into the 15000 ft level mode for dive bombers. For two reasons. One, I have yet to see that it is any more effective. It looks to me as each bomber attacks one at at time reguardless of formation. Two, if you have your dive bombers attack in groups of 15 rather than 4-then you are banking on the all of your eggs in one basket theory. It is fine if 15 DBs hit a carrier and tear it up, but what if they go after a destroyer or cruiser or worse a BB (250kg bombs just bounce off of them)-then you have wasted 15 precious attacks where you would have only used up 4 attacks at 10,000 feet. If you have a 30 plane attack and 15 of them drop eggs on just one DD-you pretty much have squandered an attack.

[Tuli Vapaa]

Actually it's 9 planes. But you got a point.

But using only 4 plane groups, you risk losing all of the flight prior bomb is dropped. Especially in first wave. And most dive bomber attacks are made from carriers and that means numerous attackers seeking most prominent target. I stay with my recomendation. 1 bomb hit on enemy carrier means it will slow down. Slow it down and it's easier to hit with torpedoes. Twice as important when playing IJN, as their main carrier weapon is 18" torp and USN ships can survive unbelivable bomb (read:SYS) damage.

[RealChuckB]

ORIGINAL: Tuli Vapaa

Actually it's 9 planes. But you got a point.

But using only 4 plane groups, you risk losing all of the flight prior bomb is dropped. Especially in first wave. And most dive bomber attacks are made from carriers and that means numerous attackers seeking most prominent target. I stay with my recomendation. 1 bomb hit on enemy carrier means it will slow down. Slow it down and it's easier to hit with torpedoes. Twice as important when playing IJN, as their main carrier weapon is 18" torp and USN ships can survive unbelivable bomb (read:SYS) damage.

Hi,

Here is my first experience with using your advice:
When playing yesterday, a nasty TF with two japanese BBs (Kongo and Kuruna (or similar name [;)])) bombardet my beloved Port Moresby ... Immediatly afterwards I moved my 4 CV taskforce towards Gili Gili and - BINGO - I caught this TF during their second try somewhat SE from Gili Gili. My SBDs flying from 15,000 scored multiple hits with 1000pounds on each BB and even some on the escorting CL and DDs. I lost some planes (and quite a number were damaged) but the result was very good.
(Unfortunately for the BBs, they were also in range of my Port Moresby planes (and I have every available B26, B25 and Havoc there ...)

During the following night I closed in and was able to fly a 57 plane attack with my Devastors on the ships that were not able to flee (one BB, a CL and some DD's). I spotted the Kongo heading for the Rabaul but I am sure she is at least moderatly damaged ...
On the same day (the second one) a japanese CV taskforce showed up NE of Gili Gili while my TF was SE of Gili Gili. My SBDs (again at 15,000) got through and hit on CV mutiple times without any counter-attack. I then disenganged and went for Noumea.

Promising results at least and a great day [:D]

Chuck

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Tuli Vapaa

Actually it's 9 planes. But you got a point.

But using only 4 plane groups, you risk losing all of the flight prior bomb is dropped. Especially in first wave. And most dive bomber attacks are made from carriers and that means numerous attackers seeking most prominent target. I stay with my recomendation. 1 bomb hit on enemy carrier means it will slow down. Slow it down and it's easier to hit with torpedoes. Twice as important when playing IJN, as their main carrier weapon is 18" torp and USN ships can survive unbelivable bomb (read:SYS) damage.

Oops! 9 planes it is. Remember each plane faces the same AA odds during an attack. It does not matter what the formation or number of planes the AA attacks are resolved one plane at a time. The same holds true for the bomb attacks. Numbers in the formation do not matter as each pilot must face the bulldog alone.

You are right though. With a massive attack from a carrier group, it does not matter much. But I have yet to see any real advantage with 9 planes vs 4 plane attacks. Just a matter of choice, I suppose.

[Denniss]

A 9-plane attack goup has better chances to do more damage as a 4-plane group especially if a lot of targets of nearly the same value are in the attacked Task force .

Think of a 4-CV TF with support ships and a 16-plane attack group arrives .
With 4-plane attacks it's possible the 4x4 groups are attacking 4 different CV with little to no damage .
With 9+6 plane attacks the chances for a badly and a good damaged CV are much higher as only two ships are attacked and not 4

[crsutton]

It depends on what you want to do. There are many times where I am only trying to damage ships rather than sink them. For example, as the Japanese player in scens 17 and 19, I almost always (read always) play for an autovictory. My goal is not to sink Allied ships-rather it is to damage them enough to send them home for about six months. Two good bomb hits on a CV or perhaps two good torpedo hits on a BB will put them back at Pearl for at least some months. My goal is to put them out of the game during the critical months of October-December 1942, when the decisive action takes place. Sinking ships can be a waste of time and planes if you are playing for autovictory.

Likewise as the Allies-one 1000 pound bomb will put a Japanese CV out of the battle for six months. This is my goal as the Allied player. Sinking Jap CVs in nice but if I can send the bulk of them away for long term repairs, then it does not matter when they come back. By early 1943, Allied LBA rules, and there is less of a threat from Japanese CVs. By the time they comes back-it is too late.

Thus for me-spreading hits around is preferable except in certain situations.

[RealChuckB]

Crsutton,

Thanks - that's actually a very good advice. In my current game I seem to be successfull in doing just that: I think I scored some hits on japanese CVs and haven't seen them for quite a while. During that time, I was able to take back Lunga from a 15,000 man garrison by constantly shipping troops over under the air cover of my 4 CV TF near the island. I cut off any japanese reinforcement by mining the waters between Lunga and the japanse bases and positioning multiple Subs there too. The AI tried to reinforce Lunga and several(!) TFs fell to my Air Groups (including A LOT of CAs). I don't think I sunk any CV and I only had to send 1 CV back to Pearl myself.
I also scored several hits on at least two BBs - never seen them again in the game too. The AI is now closing in on Lunga with another BB group but I anticipated the fall of Lunga and immediately after it fell, I unloaded the necessary support groups and transfered air groups to the Airfield that the Ai had already created. So his BB group was already attacked by my Lunga-based SBDs and I scored two hits on two BBs ...
Great game - only problem is the "just one more turn" addiction ...

Chuck

[crsutton]

Sounds like a good plan.

Now, are you playing any games against humans? If not, I urge you to do so.
Playing soley agaist the AI will allow you to develop bad habits that a competent human player will exploit. Once you go to human pbemail play-there is no going back to the AI.

[;)]

[Tuli Vapaa]

I would personally put everything I got to SINK the enmy CV's. I settle for heavy damage, but sinking is the target. Why? Well victory points is one thing, but more importantly, if damaged Flat Top makes it to Noumea or Truk and is sent to Pearl or Tokyo, every plane it still has in it's hangars will go to plane pool and propably used to reinforce other units. If you got him/it in ropes, go for the kill. Especially important as USN player, because (if Scen 19 is exluded), IJN has constant shortage of carrier planes.

[RealChuckB]

Tuli,

I decided to pursue both targets ... [:D]

After damging a number of AI's BBs, I caught his CV TF north of Lunga.
The AI was caught in between the Lunga-based SDBs and Avengers and my 4 CV TF east of him (I seem to be pretty good in anticipating the AI action ... [:)])
I was able to sink two of his CV without suffering an attack on my CVs due to the fact that his attacks targeted my replenishment TF trailing my CV TF ... Well, I lost one AO and 2 DDs, but I would still call this a good day [;)]

Chuck