Another production question

[AmiralLaurent]

When reading the manual, I found that:

_ each manpower center point will produce 5 manpower points at the expense of ten ressources

_ each armament industry point will produce one armament point at the expense of 6 heavy industry points

_ each vehicle industry point will produce one vehicle point at the expense of 6 heavy industry points

Problem is that the Japanes is producing each turn 3900 manpower points, 501 armament points and 70 vehicle points. So you have only weapons to use 1/6th of your men, the other are equiped with knifes and bamboo poles ??? Manpower production is then a waste of ressources.

Or the manual is wrong and it sould say

_ each armament industry point will produce 6 armament point at the expense of 6 heavy industry points

_ each vehicle industry point will produce 6 vehicle point at the expense of 6 heavy industry points

If this is the case, there is still a small shortage of weapons but most of the manpower will be used.

On a side note, for the first month of the war, new units of a total load cost of 51802 load cost are created so they need 51802 manpower points and 51802 armament points (no motorized units). Thas is 1700 points a day. And you also have to provide replacement to existing units.

If only 500 armaments points are used, that means that on day 17 of the war the armament points pool will be at 0 and then units will be created at 25% strenght, using emergency molbilization only 2 weeks after the beginning of the war...

Next month, 35600 load points are created.

[Sinjen]

I think the key is not to take heavy losses requiring massive reinforcement of your current units in the field. That way armament and vehicle points can accumulate enough to supply new units coming in. I'm also expanding them in my game.

[Caltone]

Additionally several armament factories are very small at the start and I generally expand them.

[AmiralLaurent]

I'm quite sure something is wrong with the model. To build replacements you need manpower and armement/vehicles at the same level. And you have at the start 780 manpower centers and 591 armament/vehicle centers.

But the output of the first are five times their number while the latter are only equal to their number, and it will be a long time and very costly to create enough armament factories to the level of the manpower productions.

Compared to the scheduled arrival of units, the manpower production level is right, the armament production is way too low. You will have no more armaments available three days after Pearl harbor and then all units will arrive with reduced TOE and factories will be unable to complete them.... not even counting losses.

[Grotius]

Hmm, I'm hoping it's a problem with the manual. Maybe Mr. Frag knows?

[brisd]

It would seem to me if the manual is correct, then Japan needs to seriously expand its armament factories or as many have stated, the incoming land units will be at 25% strength. Has anyone calculated the excess HI points available after all production is done?

[Sinjen]

The game initially starts out with a fairly large stock of armament and vehicle points reflecting the pre-war buildup by Japan. I've played two games as Japan so far and have gotten past 3 days and did not run out of armament or vehicle points. The armament stockpile did seem to get used up fast but I never ran out. The vehicle points seem to be used up at a reduced rate in comparison. Probably because Japan really doesn't have all that many armored or mechanized divisions.

I noticed that alot gets used up reinforcing non-frontline units. Therefore you can prioritize your reinforcement to frontline units only if you seem to be running low on armaments. Reinforcement also takes supply so not every unit is getting reinforced every turn pending their supply situation.

Using priorities for reinforcement you should be able to maintain what is required to build your incoming units.

[Spooky]

Shameless bump ... [;)] - we need some feedback from a beta-tester or a developer !

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent

I'm quite sure something is wrong with the model. To build replacements you need manpower and armement/vehicles at the same level. And you have at the start 780 manpower centers and 591 armament/vehicle centers.

But the output of the first are five times their number while the latter are only equal to their number, and it will be a long time and very costly to create enough armament factories to the level of the manpower productions.

Compared to the scheduled arrival of units, the manpower production level is right, the armament production is way too low. You will have no more armaments available three days after Pearl harbor and then all units will arrive with reduced TOE and factories will be unable to complete them.... not even counting losses.

[Sinjen]

I've also noted in my game that there is also alot of equipment already created stockpiled at the start of the war. I am about a week into the conflict and have yet to drain all of the stockpile of equipment and squads. Therefore your armament and vehicle points are mainly used for upgrades and replenishment of the pool in the first 180 days probably allowing you to expand and or build up a stockpile. Atleast this is my thinking. So far armament points are not a problem. I have however used up most of my vehicle points over the last turn. I think its because of armor units in the Home defense reinforcing themselves.

[AmiralLaurent]

Hey

Do you stop reinforcements for all/most of your units ?

Anyway, my main problem is not the armament pool going empty in 3 days if you let all units accept reinforcements, but the fact that the manpower points produced (with a expense of ressources) are 6 times the production of weapons of the industry and so are a waste.

As for increasing the armament/vehicle industry to have the same output, that means to build 3300 factories points, at a cost of 3 300 000 supplies, almost all that Japan has at the start of the game. And these factories will use 20 400 more heavy industry points, needing 20 400 more ressources and oil, more than that what Japan can take on the map.... So your armament inductry will never be able to use your manpower output, wich pool will rise by around 50000-60000 per month.

I haven't play months of WITP but only weeks and see the beginning of this.

Then you need 51000 manpower and armament points in the 25 first days of scen 15 only to build new units (not counting replacements). You have 20 000 armament points at the start and produce 500 a day, so will only have 32 500 on day 25, lacking 19 000.

Another possibility is that the manual is wrong on the comsumption of armament and vehicle points.

According to the manual, a SNLF squad (load cost 13) will need 13 manpower and 13 armament. If the real cost is one armament per squad and as much manpower as the load cost it may work.

[Sinjen]

I primarily only reinforce front line troops. Home defense and Kwangtung (Manchuko Garrison) are not a priority unless I am planning on changing their HQ. I'll probably have to start reinforcing them prior to the russian activation in 45. However, thats a long ways off.

I also do not reinforce what I consider to be rear area garrison forces unless they are in a potentially threatened area.

[Xargun]

You guys are right. In my PBEM I have 142,000+ manpower in my pool and every turn it increases, but remember I believe manpower is used for other things too - like increasing industries - I believe it costs manpower to increase factories. PLUS, in the later half of the game when the allies are marching and taking / destroying all your HI outside of japan you will only need to concentrate on making weapons as you will have a HUGE surplus of manpower to use up. Also, think of engineers and support squads. I'm sure they don't take very much armament, but high in manpower... Once you start filling these units out you will use up more manpower than before. I am not sure, but there is probably enough manpower to do all this, but Japan's problems weren't not enough men to fight - but enough equipment to fight with...

Xargun

[2ndACR]

I use the no upgrade/no replacement option. I want to have as much control as I can over who gets what
and how much and when.

[AmiralLaurent]

ORIGINAL: Xargun

You guys are right. In my PBEM I have 142,000+ manpower in my pool and every turn it increases, but remember I believe manpower is used for other things too - like increasing industries - I believe it costs manpower to increase factories. PLUS, in the later half of the game when the allies are marching and taking / destroying all your HI outside of japan you will only need to concentrate on making weapons as you will have a HUGE surplus of manpower to use up. Also, think of engineers and support squads. I'm sure they don't take very much armament, but high in manpower... Once you start filling these units out you will use up more manpower than before. I am not sure, but there is probably enough manpower to do all this, but Japan's problems weren't not enough men to fight - but enough equipment to fight with...

Xargun

You're right, expanding a factory is cost one manpower point per new factory. So you can build 3000 new factories each day...

99% of the manpower used will be used for building squads and this will only take 15-20% of the manpower output if I'm right in my calculations.

[Culiacan Mexico]

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent
Another possibility is that the manual is wrong on the comsumption of armament and vehicle points.

According to the manual, a SNLF squad (load cost 13) will need 13 manpower and 13 armament. If the real cost is one armament per squad and as much manpower as the load cost it may work.

A SNLF squad (load cost 13) = 13 Manpower and 13 Armament.
13 manpower = 26 Resources
13 armament = 78 HI
78 HI = 78 Resources and 78 Oil.

A SNLF squad (load cost 13) = 104 Resources and 78 oil.

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A 70mm Howitzer (load cost 8) = 8 Manpower and 8 Armament.
8 manpower costs 16 resources
8 armaments costs 48 HI
48 HI = 48 resources and 48 Oil.

A 70mm Howitzer (load cost 8) = 64 Resources and 48 oil

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A Type 95 Light Tank (load cost 8) = 10 Manpower and 10 Vehicle
10 manpower = 20 Resources
10 Vehicle = 60 HI
60 HI = 60 Resource and 60 Oil

A Type 95 Light Tank = 80 Resource and 60 Oil

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A single engine aircraft = 36 HI
36 HI = 36 Resource and 36 oil.

A single engine aircraft = 36 Resource and 36 oil.
-------------------------------------------------------

A twin engine bomber = 54 HI
54 HI = 54 Resource and 54 oil

A twin engine bomber = 54 Resource and 54 oil.



The cost in oil and resources to produce a twin engine bomber or a 70 mm howitzer is comparable? A Type 95 Light Tank is cheaper than a Bomber to produce?


Are my calculations wrong?


PS.

A SNLF squad (load cost 13) = 13 Manpower and 1 Armament.
13 manpower = 26 Resources
1 armament = 6 HI
6 HI = 6 Resources and 6 Oil.

A SNLF squad (load cost 13) = 32 Resources and 6 oil.