Ship Repair & Repair Points Issues

[Black Cat]

I`m at 4/10/42 in the Campaign, and I thought I would stop playing all out and set up some tests to see how things worked.

One thing that just did not " feel" right was the repair of sys damage while in the major US ports so I set up a test.

Moved all ships out of Pearl except the 2 AR`s and the 5 CV`s which has sys damage from routine steaming and the 4/1/42 upgrade. Moved all ships out of L. A. except 2 Battleships and 1 DD. All ships at anchor, not docked or in TF`s.

The test results: RP is Repair Points the numbers are sys damage.

4/10/42 Pearl Harbor 100 RP with the Fleet HQ and AR modifiers

Yorktown 4
Enterprise 4
Hornet 6
Lexington 5
Saratoga 3

4/11/42 110 RP

All ships with same sys damage, no change [&:]

4/12/42 210 RP

Yorktown 4
Enterprise 4
Hornet 5
Lexington 3
Saratoga 3

4/13/42 404 RP

Yorktown 4
Enterprise 3
Hornet 4
Lexington 3
Saratoga 3

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4/10/42 L. A. 331 RP

Oklahoma 2
Arizona 2
Dale 2


4/11/42 204 RP

Oklahoma 2
Arizona 2
Dale 0

4/12/42 110 RP [&:]

Oklahoma 2
Arizona 2
Dale 0

4/13/42 404 RP

Oklahoma 2
Arozona 2
Dale 0

------------------------------------- End of Test

As an aside, Maryland has been sitting in S.F, which has 700+RP for 30 days and has lost 0 sys damage.

I was assuming that 1 RP would repair 1 sys damage per ship per turn but clearly that`s not happing, nor is 100 RP`s fixing 1 system damage per ship per turn, although it`s close( the manual is not at all clear on how the relationships between RP and sys damage works ) in fact there seems to be no relationship at all, with RP`s changing with no sys damage repair going on.

Also FWIW I although I did not include it I Know Arizona and Oklahoma were sitting in LA alone for at lease 12 turns with no sys damage coming off.

[Xargun]

From what I have been able to get from Mr.Frag and see for myself repairing big ships (cruisers and up) take a while. With 1 AR, in a size 10 port, with a fleet HQ and a size 30 repair yard I am repairing 1 point on a CA about every other day. Now repair points are spent to DOUBLE the CHANCE of a repair happening... not ensuring a repair happens.. Every day the computer tallies up the chance for a ship in port to repair and rolls the dice... If it makes it a point is removed from the damage.. if not, then the repair points and such are wasted and nothing happens..

I do not have 4 ARs in my game yet (and won't for 3 more months), but 1 point every other day isn't bad on a large CA.. I have also repaired several points on a BB by sitting it in Tokyo with a fleet HQ and repair yards - no ARs... I've repaired like 5 points on it in like 10 days or less... The repair yard there is much larger though and probably doubles the % every turn..

Smaller ships - Subs, merchies and DDs repair fairly quickly when in large ports..

Xargun

[Black Cat]

hmmmmm ...[&:]

I`m going to spend some time thinking about this and will do a more extensive post later. It`s unclear if each ship is rolled for ( my guess is no ) as well as well as if it`s type dependent i.e. BB-CV`s take longer then DD`s. ( more on that when we get hard answers )

However........... assuming your 100 % correct and there really are cals. going on, , two things are apparent.

1: The smaller the "number" becomes ( in this case a sys damage # ) the longer it takes to get rid of it. This is the old problem with computer wargame CRT`s, the smaller the unit you want to kill, no matter how much " force" , or in this case die roll modifers, the harder/longer it takes to get rid of it, ( the Math majors[;)] know the term ) so we have ships sitting alone in large ports like L.A. for 15+ days. often longer, with 2 sys damage. As the # gets lower, the longer it takes to get to 0

2. It`s pretty clear that what they gave us in reducing at sea sys damage from UV they took away with the current repair time by adding sys damage from upgrades.

The example of Maryland sitting in S.F. for 30+ days, at 30 sys damage, and losing 0 sys damage is possible, you can flip a coin and get heads 30 + times, but not very likely, and not in several different ports.

This " feels" even less right now....[8|]

[Spectra]

I don't the details of the normal, probability-based repair system, but my understanding of repair yards is that they use up Repair points = durability of the target. Thus, big and tough BB's use more points than small DD's.

[Damien Thorn]

Is it ever possible to repair more than one point a day? I think a PT boat with 50 damage should be able to be repeaired in less than a month in Tokyo or San Francisco.

[Ron Saueracker]

I'm OK with the present rate of repair. If anything, repairs may be TOO rapid. I'm even advocating FLOT damage be somewhat permanent and requiring dockyard time to make right. Please, Mike...........[:)]?

Let's not forget that spare parts are needed (for those who believe a PT Boat can be repaired in the time it takes to repair a bass boat) and the repair "roll" does a very adequate job of randomizing repair times.

A few historical examples of delayed/never completed repair issues....

CA USS Houston never repaired it's after 8" turret after a 250 kg bomb strike early in the defence of DEI.

SS HMS Rover was in Singapore dockyard at start of hostilities and was never repaired throughout the war in various ports due primarily to a lack of essential spare parts.

Liberty ship SS Edgar Allan Poe was never repaired after a torpedo hit near Noumea in 1942. Engine room wrecked and ship served remainder of war as a static naval stores ship.

CL HMNZS Leander basically knocked out of war in 1943 after ONE torpedo hit.

[Black Cat]

Good points Ron, as well as historical.[;)]

Here`s why it is important to know how the repair works.


If you want to priortize your repair ( which of course you do if you can ), by ship type, you need to know how the system works.

If the deal is it rolls for repair for _each ship_ in port against a limited amount of repair points, and you fill the port with 1`s and 2`s sys damage Transports and DD`s that could slow down the repair of the important ships like CV`s and BB`s. ( or maybe it doesn`t ?? )

If it rolls against _ships types_, all, or some, then you need to know that. Does it start with the CV`s and move down ???

If it is just _completely random_ and all ships may or may not get sys damage repaired it is helpful to know that.

As an example, if I get 2 CV`s returning to Pearl with 20 and 25 sys damage each, do I clear all other ships out of the habor so the CV`s get repaired faster since they are the only ships there ??

How long do I have to expect to leave ships in harbor to get rid of the last 2-3 sys damage ?

Do I build up nearby Helo Port to take the overflow of 1`s and 2`s sys damaged ships and put an AR or 2 there ? Does it matter ?[&:]

Do I send all low-medium DD`s with sys damage for upgrades back to the West Coast for repair, or do I send them back there to get upgraded so as not to tie up repair in Pearl. ( the 4/42 upgrade gave all the DD`s in Pearl 13-16 sys damage BTW ) so knowing how the sys repair works in the few ports that can do can help you decide how many ships to upgrade and when.

This seems to me to be pretty important stuff, and what the Game is about, and was certainly available to the commanders on the spot, and then too I`m into the details of this Great Game .[8D]

[Tankerace]

Also, look at the losses at PH for an example.

USS Oklahoma, capsized, refloated 1943. Considered not worth repairing, and termed an operational loss. This could reflect 99 sys damage, which would take forever to repair.

USS California: sunk, refloated 1942, recommissioned 1944. This could represent around 75=80 sys damage.

Then you have cases like the Nevada. Beached, refloated 1942. Made seaworthy and temp repairs, bombarded Kiska mid-late 1942, then underwent a year of refitting. A year refit could be represented by say 50 sys damage at time of attack (Dec. 7, 41), taken down to 40-45 sys damage around mid 42 for the Kiska battle, then the refit would take it up to 55 or 60, and then spend the rest of 42 and most of 43 repairing.

Given that, I find the repair rates for capital ships fairly accurate. Unfortunately, it means some ships will be so badly damaged that the can never be repaired, or not repaired to factory fresh conditions.

For smaller ships, like PT boats, I believe that repairs should take less than a month (on the West Coast). Smaller ships should not take as long as larger ones. For instance, the USS Shaw was destroyed by a magazine explosion at PH. So, the built her a new back half in the West Coast, repaired what was left of her, and 6 months after PH she was back in action. That was far more than a rebuild, as she was almost a new tin can.

PT boats, being made of plywood, are easily patched up (much like sailing ships of old), and the main thing that would take the longest to repair would be engines, torpedo tubes (on early boats), and new guns added.

Just my 2 pfennigs (lol)

[SunDevil_MatrixForum]

I think also people need to keep in perspective the length of a game turn is 1 day. It is not a week, or a month or a year. So if it takes 20 turns to fix a ship, remember that there are over 1300 turns in the grand campaign. Hell, even if it takes 100 turns for the ship to get repaired you now still have the ship for the other 1200 turns if damaged in the beginning of the game. In my opinion I think the repair rate is fine.

[SunDevil_MatrixForum]

Also I think the current repair rates make the player play a little more cautiously (except for Kid), because they know if they are not careful, their most important ships might be out of commission for a while. Again, just my opinion.

[Black Cat]

ORIGINAL: SunDevil

I think also people need to keep in perspective the length of a game turn is 1 day. It is not a week, or a month or a year. So if it takes 20 turns to fix a ship, remember that there are over 1300 turns in the grand campaign. Hell, even if it takes 100 turns for the ship to get repaired you now still have the ship for the other 1200 turns if damaged in the beginning of the game. In my opinion I think the repair rate is fine.

Thanks for the input SD [;)] , I`m not questioning the repair rate times right now.

I`m just trying to figure out how they work so I can use them to best effect to repair my ships.

It will be a long War.

Chester A. Nimitz Admiral USN.
Commander In Chief, United States Pacific Fleet.

Pearl Harbor
April 13 1942

CC to:

Sectretary of the Navy The Honorable Joel Billings.
Chief of Naval Operations Admiral of the Fleet Gary Grigsby.
Naval Aide to the President of the United States Admiral David Heath.

[Xargun]

From my experience captial ships (Cruisers and up) repair about 1 point every other day.
Smaller ships repair about 1 point every day (DD, SS, merchies).
Baby ships can repair multiple points in a day (MSW, PC, PG).

These are from my PBEM game in a port with the following:
Size 10 port
Fleet HQ in base
Repair Yard (only size 23 - so a small - medium sized yard)
1 AR

Now up to 3 more ARs can be added to speed up the repairs (I don't have more or I would use them). Also, my non-capital ship repairs have been in the same as above but no AR... But it is all based on the durability of the ship.. A CV with low durability (like some of the japanese CVs) will repair faster than even cruisers with higher durability... Thats why little ships (like PC, PG) repair very fast cause there is not much there and not very hard to repair wooden hulls. I imagine PT boats would fall into this category as well.

In like 3 months I'll get more ARs and will be have a better idea, but til then my info above is farily good... Perhaps Rob (my opponent) can share some of his examples - he definately has more ARs than I do.

Xargun

[eMonticello]

ORIGINAL: Black Cat

I`m at 4/10/42 in the Campaign, and I thought I would stop playing all out and set up some tests to see how things worked.

One thing that just did not " feel" right was the repair of sys damage while in the major US ports so I set up a test.

Pearl Harbor:

4/11/42 All ships with same sys damage, no change [&:]

4/12/42 [Some ships repaired]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LA:

4/11/42 [Some ships repaired]

4/12/42 [&:] [No ships repaired]

------------------------------------- End of Test

Hmmm... Seems that they've chosen to take either Saturday or Sunday off in your test

[Black Cat]

Yep ! Those dang civilian time and 1/2 for overtime and double pay for weekends repair contractors[;)]

Never win the war that way....