Is this right?

[Fallschirmjager]

Playing just now and my CV's caught 4 Japanese BB's bombarding a hex and flew several waves of bombers against them. Two hex distance so they used 1000lb GP bombs. I hit each of the BB's 10 or so times and didnt get a single pen [X(]
How are we expected to tackle BB's when no bomb will hurt them?

[olivier_slith]

Same stuff happened to me. I pounded some of this guys with dozens of 1000 and 500lb bombs, but they remained afloat. My consolation: I think they're out of the game for at least a year!

[von Murrin]

If you got anywhere near that number of hits on each, their sys and fire damage will be enormous. If they have any flood damage at all, say goodnight in five turns or thereabout.

[Fallschirmjager]

I looked. max of 6 sys damage and 11 fire. The upper works and mounts are chewed to shreds but the armor wont crack. I got deck and belt hits both and no dice. I can see 500lb bombs not getting through but christ. The 1000lb bomb is the biggest you get as the allies, if that doesnt do the trick then you are extremly screwed since your torpedo planes are worthless.

[tigercub]

yes the fires would be very bad indeed and they may sink but US 1000pd bombs will not penetrate BB deck armor!
good call von murrin

[Fallschirmjager]

In the actual war could a 1000lb GP bomb go through a BB deck or belt plate?
Thats what I was wanting to know all along [:'(]
If not how the hell were these monsters ever sunk?

[von Murrin]

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

I looked. max of 6 sys damage and 11 fire. The upper works and mounts are chewed to shreds but the armor wont crack. I got deck and belt hits both and no dice. I can see 500lb bombs not getting through but christ. The 1000lb bomb is the biggest you get as the allies, if that doesnt do the trick then you are extremly screwed since your torpedo planes are worthless.

6 and 11? there's no way you got even close to ten hits then. I'll bet 3-5 hits and FOW.

[Fallschirmjager]

ORIGINAL: von Murrin

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

I looked. max of 6 sys damage and 11 fire. The upper works and mounts are chewed to shreds but the armor wont crack. I got deck and belt hits both and no dice. I can see 500lb bombs not getting through but christ. The 1000lb bomb is the biggest you get as the allies, if that doesnt do the trick then you are extremly screwed since your torpedo planes are worthless.

6 and 11? there's no way you got even close to ten hits then. I'll bet 3-5 hits and FOW.

Ok Ok..maybe 5
but lets focus here.
Can a 1000lb GP bomb in real life puncture a BB hull..yes or no?

[von Murrin]

Depends on the BB really. I'd say there's a decent chance on the Kongo's. Which ones were they?

[von Murrin]

I don't know how the penetration/armor ratings work, but the 1000lb GP has a penetration of 70 and the lowest deck armor ratings for IJN BB's is 130.

[Fallschirmjager]

I hit three Kongos and the Nagato.

Wernt both the Musashi and Yamamoto heavily damaged by bombs?

[von Murrin]

Musashi and Yamato took multiple bomb hits, yes. However, it was the insane number of torp hits that did them in.

I'm curious to know if weapon penetration must be greater than the armor rating for an actual penetration to occur.

EDIT: It looks like Taiho and Shinano are the only ships that will give a good test of this, having deck ratings of 95 and 75 respectively.

EDIT 2: It looks like penetration needs to be higher than the armor rating. I can't remember not seeing a penetration by the 800kg AP's used at PH. They have a penetration of 170 and the BB's have armor ratings of 108-140.

[Platoonist]

Well....the Hiei at Guadalcanal got caught in a hail of shell fire from cruisiers and destroyers at night and then was struck all the next day by bombers from Henderson Field. Tough bastard refused to go down. I believe the Japanese eventually scuttled or torpedoed her themselves. Battleships are tough. They just can't take the punishment forever.

[MadDawg]

Yep, 10-15 on each I beleive. IIRC they were also designed to take a 1000lb bomb hit dropped from 15000 feet. I posted the exact numbers in another thread a few days ago, so if your interested do a search

Dawg

[Arnir]

This is why I get a little cynical when I see the threads complaining about the weapon systems in the game. I don't know what they should be, but if one looks there is a thread about how the allied bombs are way too powerful, here they bounce off the paint (slight exaggeration <G>). PT boats are uberweapons poor wittle Japanese subs are unfairly beat up by the nasty Americans, etc. It leaves some of us, the faint of heart, uncapable of knowing who is right and who is wrong. Personally I will be interested in broad themes resulting from playing 10 campaigns or so. I should be on social security by then. <G>

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying people shouldn't post what they see as problems. I just find it mildly amusing to watch the contradictions. [:)]

[doomonyou]

A thousand pound GP bomb should have about 600 hundred pounds of filler..Set off in contact with the deck armor it certainly will do something. Maybe not vital damage such as going three decks down and blowing up a magazine, but it probably would penetrate the deck armor (I say that because a thousand pound bomb striking the front of an M1 Abrams will penetrate its front glacis armor and destroy it, and the front glacis armor on an Abrams is AT LEAST equivalent to WWII BB deck armor. So you'd have spalling and some blow through to the deck below, some fire possibility, plus structual damage in the immediate vicinity from transmitted shock. Anything on deck for some distance (exposed AA positions, etc) would be whacked, etc.

5 GP hits on a heavy IJN BB won't sink it but its should do far more then 5 sys damage.

[von Murrin]

Contradictions usually mean it's working correctly.[:D]

[Arnir]

I've heard that rumor before, but then it was contradicted. So I guess it must be right.[:)]

[pompack]

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

In the actual war could a 1000lb GP bomb go through a BB deck or belt plate?
Thats what I was wanting to know all along [:'(]
If not how the hell were these monsters ever sunk?

Even the Kongo's deck was proof against a 1000lb GP. In fact most of the rebuilt and new BB's (except the Kongo's) decks were proof against a 1000lb AP dropped from 5000ft. Level bombing with AP bombs from 8000-15000 feet was the great bugaboo of the thirties; a great deal of time and effort went into devising clever armor schemes to defeat such bombs. The trouble was that nobody could hit a manuevering ship from that altitude without a great deal of luck. Every air force practiced formation pattern bombing but it was rearely successful (the Japanese attack against the POW/Repulse utilized a significant number (I don't have the reference handy but I think it was around 30 a/c) of bombs for a single, non-penetrating hit on the POW).

So I believe the answer is no, it wouldn't. They were sunk with torpedoes ("let in water, not air") or massive superstructure/fire damage.

[Platoonist]

Just for visual interest. The Japanese Kongo-Class battleship Haruna after repeated pasting by US carrier based aircraft at Kure Japan. Sunk but upright. The wreck was scrapped after the war.