How many escorts in a convoy.

[grraven2004]

The way I check escort ships for asw capabilites is to right click on the ship before selecting it in the form TF window. I accidently found this feature. It also tells you the type of maingun and the AA score. I find it very useful when forming TF's

[latosusi]

Indeed! It was not the amount of transports/convoy as it was escorts/convoy!
I doubt if that was ever an issue within pacific campaign. Allies never had any
problems over there really. But within atlantic ocean allies, after these studies, tried to create
convoys as big as possible with enough escorts. Propably understanding
that enlarging convoy size did not effect effectiveness of ASW as long as you had
enough escorts to do the job. You could detach couple of escorts to chase
found U-boats.

[Culiacan Mexico]

Historically larger convoys were the way to go, but in the game? Does shipping resources from the DEI really take 100 ship convoys? A location with 900 resource points takes more than a week to fill a single large AK, while a massive ten AK force takes over two months to fill. It seems to me that most of the shipping can be done in smaller convoys heavy escorted.

One option would be to move resources around in the DEI to some central shipping point and then build a large convoy, but with this area usually infested with Submarines I wonder if this isn’t counter productive. Another would be to allow each resource/oil location to accumulate vast quantities of these items before shipping them, which could work as long as reserves in Japan we monitored closely.

Speculation
It seems to me that ships with ASW values have a suppression effect on enemy submarines, thus my cargo ships are less likely to be attacked with escorts attached. Yet, I have often had my large surface fleets (BB/CA) attacked by submarines even though they had good ASW escorts. Was the program written to reflect the willingness of sub commanders to take greater risk if opportunity presented a more valuable target?

I would be interested to know if the size of the convoy encountered by submarines in the game effect their probability of attacking, and the way ASW escort factor into that equation.

[Culiacan Mexico]

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft
Another theory I have is that ASW Combat "hunter-killer" groups are a luxury that Japan can't afford at any time and the Allies only later on. Why waste fuel hunting for a sub when you can have it come to you? Put the ASW ships in the convoy.

Interesting. You could be right, but at least early in the game I build a few “Hunter Killers” and they seem somewhat effective. One of them consists of all the better Japanese APDs, which gives an ASW value of 100. Although they don’t always find there target and have completely missed at time, they have sunk a number of Allied Subs.

[Captain Cruft]

ORIGINAL: Culiacan Mexico

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft
Another theory I have is that ASW Combat "hunter-killer" groups are a luxury that Japan can't afford at any time and the Allies only later on. Why waste fuel hunting for a sub when you can have it come to you? Put the ASW ships in the convoy.

Interesting. You could be right, but at least early in the game I build a few “Hunter Killers” and they seem somewhat effective. One of them consists of all the better Japanese APDs, which gives an ASW value of 100. Although they don’t always find there target and have completely missed at time, they have sunk a number of Allied Subs.

Wow. I exclusively reserve APDs for invasions as they are the only fast Transport ships you've got (note capitalisation).

My point is basically very simple. What are you trying to protect, the convoy or the ocean?

[AmiralLaurent]

ORIGINAL: Culiacan Mexico

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft
Another theory I have is that ASW Combat "hunter-killer" groups are a luxury that Japan can't afford at any time and the Allies only later on. Why waste fuel hunting for a sub when you can have it come to you? Put the ASW ships in the convoy.

Interesting. You could be right, but at least early in the game I build a few “Hunter Killers” and they seem somewhat effective. One of them consists of all the better Japanese APDs, which gives an ASW value of 100. Although they don’t always find there target and have completely missed at time, they have sunk a number of Allied Subs.

In real life, hunter-killer groups without radar or HF/DF had almost zero chance to find a sub at sea, while they have more than 50% in WITP each turn according to my experience.

[McNaughton]

I think that the large Convoy is the best idea. It may slow down resource gathering, but, in the long run it will save resources as fewer ships will be sunk/damaged, and more resources actually getting to Japan instead of sent to the bottom.

I like the idea about creating resource depots and sub-shipping areas.

You have one main convoy sailing from Japan to Singapore, carrying supplies and fuel.

You have small convoys operating from Singapore that distribute these supplies and fuel to surrounding bases.

One smaller TF whose duty is to distribute supplies and pick up resources at Sumatra
One smaller TF whose duty is to distribute supplies and pick up resources at Java
One smaller TF whose duty is to distribute supplies and pick up resources at Borneo
One smaller TF whose duty is to distribute supplies and pick up resources at Burma

When these ships drop off fuel/supplies they pick up resources and oil. They then send these to Singapore which stockpiles resources for the main convoy to take to Japan in one go.

The main convoy then fills up at Singapore and sails to Japan to repeat the process.

Basically, the fewer convoys that are moving around means that there will be fewer transports sunk. It is better to have larger convoys sailing at longer intervals then to have smaller convoys sailing constantly. Also, it is absurd to waste fuel to sail ships around empty. Move supplies and/or fuel whenever your convoys are going for a resource run, as it means that the auto-convoy system won't have to send ships to these areas as they are supplied by your convoy system.

With just one single large Convoy, you could really make its ASW value impressive. The Shimushu and Momi classes are fantastic ASW ships, the best in the fleet in 1941. Also, customizing the CVEs (Taiyo and Hosho) to carry loads of dive/torpedo bombers on ASW duty within the convoy can help as well. Use your biggest transports here as well.

For your smaller Convoys, ships with less endurance are useful, since they are just travelling short distances. Using CS/AV ships here, with the aircraft on ASW duty can help as well.

There might be bases you only visit once per month, as it is better to send a 20 ship convoy every 2 months, than a 2 ship convoy every 2 weeks. The resources will eventually get to Japan, most likely in larger amounts, with fewer ships being sunk.


The main benefit from fewer convoys is that your ASW can be concentrated, and there will be fewer sub strikes on your convoys.

[Culiacan Mexico]

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft
Wow. I exclusively reserve APDs for invasions as they are the only fast Transport ships you've got (note capitalisation).

My point is basically very simple. What are you trying to protect, the convoy or the ocean?

Kill subs. If the game follows history, then Allied subs will disrupt my economy in a few years. As time passes those sub will become more deadly, why not kill them now?

[Culiacan Mexico]

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent
In real life, hunter-killer groups without radar or HF/DF had almost zero chance to find a sub at sea, while they have more than 50% in WITP each turn according to my experience.

My Japanese Hunter Killers are not so lucky. 2/3rds of the time I don't even get a single depth charge to drop, and even when I do they usually miss.