Working title: Zen and the Art of Japanese Aircraft Production

[TheElf]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the transition from Rufe to Zero would be an easy one. They are the same airplane. More than likely, though I have no proof(too lazy, 13 month old screaming right now), I'd bet Rufe Pilots were trained on A6M2's THEN trained on the Rufe.

Even if this wasn't the case. The adjustment would be a matter of days, and would entail getting used to take-offs and landings on land again, and the extra speed available due to less drag from the removal of floats. Pilots did this very frequently(and still do), and in some cases pilots IRL can fly several different types of aircraft without losing EXP.

Keep in mind that a well-trained experienced pilot 60's, 70's, 80's etc. usually just requires a "Checkout" and has to get used to SOME differences in performance. We aren't talking about any major leaps here, so let's not get carried away with the loss in EXP.

[mogami]

Hi, Changing every Rufe pilot to a Zero pilot would add what? 30 pilots? I have a requirment for Rufe pilots so I would not disband my Rufe groups. A Zero requires an airfield. A Rufe requires a dot, water, and an AV.

[DrewMatrix]

let's not get carried away with the loss in EXP.

I would agree.

A6M2 to A6m3, 1 point.
To Val 5 pts
To Betty 10 pts

(or whatever).

LBs are similar, and F/FB similar but there is a gap between the two.

[mogami]

Hi, If there is a change in experiance from upgrading aircraft it is news to me. If you are saying changing a bomber pilot to a fighter pilot then I would only point out it can't be done in the game and in actual practice there was a reason for sending one pilot to bombers and another to fightrs. Not all pilots can be fighter pilots but they might just be good enough to fly a transport.

[DrewMatrix]

No, we were just speculating that there should be, if one jumps from a PBY to a P-51 or whatever (if one jumps to a very dissiimar A/C).

[mogami]

Hi, You have as Japan an unlimited number of pilots. Some of them come trained and others you have to train yourselves. You don't have to go fishing for pilots. You have to PLAN and train what you need before you need it.

[esteban]

It would be nice if you could disband your Rufes for Zero pilots. However, Rufes are nice in that they can be used on your AVs and CS ships. They are not utterly sucky until the Hellcat comes into service.

Use them for extra added CAP over your carrier fleets, when the carrier travel with CS support. Or use them to provide some ghetto air cover for your convoys, basing them on CS or AVs, when those convoys might get hit by B-17s/24s, or even B-25s with first generation P-38s riding shotgun. I have seen B-17s downed by Rufes before.

After that, remove them from front line service, using them for protecting rear area targets that might get bombed by unescorted LRA.

Then, if worst comes to worst, you can classify them as "special attack squadrons", strap bombs onto the wings, and crash them into Allied carriers!!! Then you can come back here and brag to an incredulous crowd about how you took out 20 Hellcats with a squadron of Rufes!!

[mogami]

Hi, Here is how you replace Rufe pilots with Zero pilots.
Set the Rufe groups to "do not recieve replacements" Do not ever send a pilot to the groups. The pilots you thus save can be sent to Zero groups.

Just keep disbanding depleted Rufe groups together till you only have one left. Say "no" when asked if you want the group to return.

[TheElf]

What happens to the pilots when you disband that final Rufe Squadron?

[mogami]

Hi, You cannot disband a group without a group to send the pilots and aircraft to . Just send the last Rufe group to the musem in Tokyo.

[TheElf]

ORIGINAL: Beezle

let's not get carried away with the loss in EXP.

I would agree.

A6M2 to A6m3, 1 point.
To Val 5 pts
To Betty 10 pts

(or whatever).

LBs are similar, and F/FB similar but there is a gap between the two.

The only time there would be a drop in experience would be if you were to change a Bomber group to a Fighter group, or a Maritime Patrol unit to a fighter. But I am not even saying that is necessary.

The Rufe is a fighter. Doesn't matter that it is a float fighter. That is just how it gets airborne and lands. Sure it requires some training, but to go back to where all pilots start, the runway, is a no-brainer. The ONLY other difference would be the way it handles airborne. Making the transition to the Zero would be nearly seamless.

[TheElf]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, You cannot disband a group without a group to send the pilots and aircraft to . Just send the last Rufe group to the musem in Tokyo.

Mogami,
That is what I am suggesting we change. If it impossible to code than I will cease and desist [:'(]

[TheElf]

Send the pilots to another co-located Fighter unit(ANY IJN fighter unit). Send the A/C to the Rufe pool (the one at the museum) [;)]

[TheElf]

If these changes were implemented you could STILL do all that. however right now that is ALL we can do with them. I would like to use the pilots elsewhere.

[DrewMatrix]

go back to where all pilots start, the runway, is a no-brainer.

If only that were true[:)]

The most exciting times of many flights are "getting back to get on the runway again"

But I know what you mean.

[TheElf]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, If there is a change in experiance from upgrading aircraft it is news to me. If you are saying changing a bomber pilot to a fighter pilot then I would only point out it can't be done in the game and in actual practice there was a reason for sending one pilot to bombers and another to fightrs. Not all pilots can be fighter pilots but they might just be good enough to fly a transport.

There isn't an experience change. I don't think there should be. BUT if this kind of thing were to be implemented I DO think it would be fair to introduce a trade-off such as a 1 day of "Training/checkout" delay for each pilot in the unit. 9 pilots=9day delay for the upgrade

[mogami]

Hi, You don't like the Rufe?. The number of pilots is so small it's not worth fretting about.
It reminds me of stories about Adolph concerning himself where to place Anti Tank guns. By the time you are worried about Rufe pilots it is too late. In the entire game 5 Rufe groups of 9 aircraft each arrive. So at most we are worried about 45 pilots. I don't think it a solution and not worth doing any changes that might produce a bug. Ok there are a lot of Pete pilots but they are flying Petes because they were not good enough to fly Rufes or Zeros. You just can't take a pilot from one type and plop into another. You have to train the pilots you need.

[TheElf]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag


If I through good playing manage to not strip my pilots, why should I take a hit on EXP? I'm not kicking my pilots out of school early to fill in my losses so I should *not* see a skill drop.

I agree here, but what are the chances that that might be changed? Seems coding the various levels of winning the war in order to drive the EXP levels available might be difficult

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag The basic problem is that my way *requires* a fair chunk of code work to be done. That work has to come after everything else is fixed *if* it ever comes. Mogami's "disband w/Reform" to steal pilots option was a pretty simple thing to code and made it in. It doesn't resolve the decreasing pilot skill year after year penalty.

How difficult would it me to code my idea of designated training squadrons. Basically they are regular squadrons that absorb the untrained pilots from the pool once it has been exhausted. Not much different than the Mogami Method (Copyright 2004) It would just be official, and would take the leg work out of moving subgroups around. Pilots would just travel to their new units via an abstract Tabby transport.

[TheElf]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, You don't like the Rufe?. The number of pilots is so small it's not worth fretting about.
It reminds me of stories about Adolph concerning himself where to place Anti Tank guns. By the time you are worried about Rufe pilots it is too late. In the entire game 5 Rufe groups of 9 aircraft each arrive. So at most we are worried about 45 pilots. I don't think it a solution and not worth doing any changes that might produce a bug. Ok there are a lot of Pete pilots but they are flying Petes because they were not good enough to fly Rufes or Zeros. You just can't take a pilot from one type and plop into another. You have to train the pilots you need.

Only 45? That is about 1/3 of a years production[:D]

I like the Rufe. It was a good idea at the time. But it is obselete at the beginning of the game, and so is the Float-fighter. I would never suggest to write it out of the game, but I have never seen it do anything. Except distract other airplanes. When those 70+ EXP Rufe pilots get shot down I cringe. I can't afford to lose them like that! It has no upgrade path and those pilots are doomed not just to an airplane, but to a concept that needs to be upgraded.

Of course you can take one pilot from one type and plop him into another. We do ALL the time IRL. S-3 Viking pilots are now flying FA-18C Hornets. Tomcat Bubbas are flying Super Hornets. And it ain't that hard

But that isn't what I am talking about. Just take the floats off a Rufe and what do you have...? Exactly. An A6M2.

Now if you are talking game code and design issues, that is exactly what I am saying. Let's break down some of the coded walls and give us more ability to manage our own force composition. Would you rather have 9 Rufes or 9 experienced pilots to step up and fly A6M2s?

[mogami]

The "Perfect" System.

Decide what the max rating a pilot can achive in training is. (by aircraft type)
Decide the cost in supply to train the pilot. (by aircraft type)
Decide the amout of time required to train. (by aircraft type)

Then decide when and how often the player can intoduce pilots into training
decide when and how often the player receives his trained pilots.
decide the method for pulling pilots from system early.

Only pilots placed into system can become pilots. (no such thing as untrained. Only pilots removed from training early)

The player would then be free to decide how large the program was and how well his pilots were trained.


Example: Pilots are introduced at first of month.

1 Jan 1942
Japanese player adds 100 IJN pilots to fighter program supply will be deducted every day pilots remain in training. Rating will grow based on amount of time spent. No supply no advancment.

When pilots reach max rating from training they are availabe for assignment. Or player can halt training and assign as they are. This is then the pool and the only pool. Groups can still disband-withdraw like at present (because these are also tactical considerations)