German campaign

SoleSurvivor · Post by **SoleSurvivor** » Fri Nov 30, 2001 12:33 am

In the (regular) German campaign, 1939, what setup do you prefer? Do you buy cheap units and upgrade them later to get a large core force or do you buy a strong mix right from the start?

KG Erwin · Post by **KG Erwin** » Fri Nov 30, 2001 1:54 am

Use the search feature and look for this SPWaW thread:The best core force for a long campaign? I started this one on 6/27/01, and got some excellent replies. Hope this helps.

john g · Post by **john g** » Fri Nov 30, 2001 2:09 am

Originally posted by SoleSurvivor:
In the (regular) German campaign, 1939, what setup do you prefer? Do you buy cheap units and upgrade them later to get a large core force or do you buy a strong mix right from the start?

Since you don't have a fixed number of points to spend (you can set any point value in prefs that you want) there is absolutely no reason to buy junk to upgrade later. If you have 1000 points of junk you will have 1000 pts of ai to fight against. If instead you buy 2500 points of good stuff you will have 2500 points of ai to fight against, but you will not be fighting with junk.

Figure out how many units you want then set the pref to allow you to buy that much.
thanks, John.

Larry Holt · Post by **Larry Holt** » Fri Nov 30, 2001 2:18 am

If there is one fault with SPWaW, its that it models mobile armored warfare but the maps and battles often get clogged up with so many units that you can't play mobile warefare. For this reason, I prefer a smaller, cheaper core. Also it adds historical flavor and tactical excitement to have to fight with less than first rate equipment.

KG Erwin · Post by **KG Erwin** » Fri Nov 30, 2001 3:49 am

Larry made a good point. If you want the flavor of say, North Africa in 1941-42, have relatively small (say, maybe two companies) opponents battling on a large map. You can recreate the almost open-sea naval battle feel of the early Cyrenaica offensive, with much open space and room to manuever. The key is to determine what types of battles you want to fight, and then tailor the force/space ratio to meet your needs.

Mikimoto · Post by **Mikimoto** » Fri Nov 30, 2001 4:21 am

Hello Sole.

If you begin the campaingn in 1939 your core force will be a lot cheaper than a year or two later. Then, you can buy the core you want without having to fight against giant masses of enemies. this way you can gain some experience before the horde arrives... <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

If you want to play with combined arms core force, you must buy few units, three companies as maximum. As some comrades said, if you choose a lot of units, forget maneuver. But if you want to fight the war with a core force composed of infantry, go for a full batallion. All of this in my humble opinion, of course. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

wulfir · Post by **wulfir** » Sun Dec 02, 2001 5:42 pm

I have fought a long campaign starting in 1943 as the Krauts using a company of Fallschirmjäger and some support; a FO, a engineer platoon, a StuGIV section, Pak40 section, 120mm mortar platoon, some scouts and a sniper. That was fun, a bit more difficult than fighting with large numbers of Panthers.

Lately I have begun a new German campaign set in France 1944 and I’m using a core force of evil Waffen SS troops. I based the core on the German formation attacking the Ramalle bridge in SPR. Just hope I don’t have to face that Captain Miller! That would mean good night for my two Tigers.

Tried once to fight a similar campaign with a small French force of company size and a couple of Somua tanks, but the Germans walked all over my poor troops. I couldn’t hold the objectives.

In all these cases build points were irrelevant. The small size of the core and the few upgrades led to a very large amount of surplus points.

[ December 02, 2001: Message edited by: Wulfir ]</p>

Ballan · Post by **Ballan** » Wed Dec 05, 2001 5:25 pm

Sorry Wulfir, re your "I’m using a core force of evil Waffen SS troops" comment, I checked the OOB but could nt find those troops listed.

I thought such silly ill-educated comments were banned from this forum, just stick to the factual military capabilites without the political good side V bad side baggage

NeoWhiteWolf · Post by **NeoWhiteWolf** » Wed Dec 05, 2001 6:12 pm

Ballan ill agree with you.... The Waffen by 1944 were mostly Polish Replacements and any German W-SS that survived...and on the fact that some Waffen were involved with anti-jewish incidents mostly they were to busy concentrating on fighting the red army and those damn americans .

Most of the Waffen SS were not really followers of the SS movement and the Gustapo...There were more like what we consider Army Rangers and Marine Recon...the were a Fighting SF...like the Greun Teuffels (FJ Green Devils) and so forth were just like SF we have today...\

And Sole Survivor i started my campaign with a lot of Rifle Teams, about 10 or 20 Light tanks(Mostly Ib with the mounted machine gun eat squads up) and 5 or 6 CS Tanks (The 75mm will help)a few AA guns i prefer 37's (Read my other post about them)1 or 2 paks...and engineer if you like offense a lot...other than that go creative and learn strenghts of your units versus the enemy...if Light tanks get womped by the russians throw a heavy and so forth examples...And remeber with the WW2 campaign you can morph units(Change after a battle)so upgrading to SS Rifle Teams then Spec Ops..(who i found to be perfect defenders and assualters)and eventually WSS...the 7.92x35 StG44 is a good weapon, bettert than Mauser so choose wisely before you go into a battle and go conservative....there is no law about being conservative all the time it just takes longer.

I take my time in maps...with Inf and Tanks and HT(Half-Tracks) together the enemy has less chance of assault on tank. So have fun and if you wanna do something fun try a WW2 Caimpagn as a really group of Soldiers like the SS 3rd Panzer division and choose your units close to a division or battaliion...

[ December 05, 2001: Message edited by: Richard WhiteWolf ]</p>

ruxius · Post by **ruxius** » Thu Dec 06, 2001 2:49 pm

I would like also some large battles enabling encirclement of huge mass of Polish infantry..
Then infantry ,air ,artillery will finish the job...

Tombstone · Post by **Tombstone** » Thu Dec 06, 2001 10:52 pm

How about Totenkopf in 40? How about the pacification in the Pripet? Did you know that Das Reich participated in a slaughter of Jews in Minsk? I think the SS are a very interesting lot (I've been working on a campaign following 3rd SS through Kursk for ages), but don't forget what they did. Much of their initial cadre was formed from early concentration camp guards. They participated in the early phases of the holocost. At least they aren't like the SD or anything excessively horrible like that, but people can argue that as bad enough. The waffen SS units had a higher incidence of atrocities than other units in WW2. That may not make them 'evil' but saying so isn't strictly incorrect. The danger of revisionist history is taking it for granted. At least LAH and DR were among the lighter offenders (not that they didn't do plenty of wrong), and they certainly kicked a lot of ass... but they are the exception. Not the norm. Hell, Theodore Eicke wrote the regulations for concentration camp prisoners. (He's the guy they named the 5th SS PzGrenadier Rgt after... the head of 3rd SST.)

Tomo

wulfir · Post by **wulfir** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 5:06 am

Originally posted by Ballan:
Sorry Wulfir, re your "I’m using a core force of evil Waffen SS troops" comment, I checked the OOB but could nt find those troops listed.

I thought such silly ill-educated comments were banned from this forum, just stick to the factual military capabilites without the political good side V bad side baggage

Let me clarify, Ballan.
If you have trouble finding the SS troops do check again. I used the adjective “evil” to put some colour in the text because I felt it did sound more aggressive then say “my merry Waffen SS troops”. Also have you seen the movie SPR (Saving Private Ryan)? If so, did you get the impression that the SS men were the good guys or the bad guys(= the evil ones)?
It was not my intention to include a political message but I think I will have to now.

Factual military capabilities of the Nazi-German Waffen SS?
A few units were first rate, some were good and some were absolute crap. They fought for the regime of Adolf Hitler and his Nazi party and in the end all their efforts at the front and "elsewhere" served this regime. Doing this they wore the SS runes on their uniforms, insignia that along with the Swastika is remembered as signs of pure evil.

Soldaten wie andere auch? I think not. Should we forget or ignore the unpleasant parts of the Waffen SS and only focus on the cool, camouflage uniforms, their fighting spirit or their first rate equipment? I think not.

Personally I feel the best picture is always the full picture.

AmmoSgt · Post by **AmmoSgt** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 5:50 am

I find any comparison between nazi's and US Military an insult to the Brave and Honorable Soldiers that fought in WW2 ... the constant request by nazi appologists to narrow the focus of military conduct to disregard 80% of what the nazi SS and regular army did to civilian populations just continues to show that they still have no regard for the truth or concept of honor.

frank1970 · Post by **frank1970** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 1:46 pm

Blah Blah blah, and again Ammo´s memo to the honor.

fguillemart · Post by **fguillemart** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 2:23 pm

Does anyone remember a small town in France called Oradour sur Glane, which received a " friendly visit " from Das Reich in 1944 ?
The entire population was burnt alive in the church, with only 2 or 3 survivors out of several hundred people.
Does anyone remember the GIs taken prisoners during operation Wacht am Rhein in december 1944 and executed by Peiper and co ?
I personnally like playing w/the german forces, but no one should ever forget the atrocities committed by SS units.
War is a horrible thing, and some guys always try to make it more horrible than it already is.
I think SS did belong to these guys.
This has nothing to do with politics, but with history.

Christopher · Post by **Christopher** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 2:30 pm

I usually avoid playing SS forces.

Mikimoto · Post by **Mikimoto** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 2:55 pm

Hello.

You must remember also that all foreign troops fighting for Germany were enlisted in the Waffen-SS... not in the Heer. The only foreign unit pertaining to the Heer was the Spanish 250th Division, the "Blue Division". All the rest going to the Waffen-SS.
SS troops fall in two categories then: Elite German units (or from germanic origin as Don Germans, for example) and Foreigners serving Germany (most of them volunteers). And yes, most Waffen SS troops played dark, genocide, anti-partisan and repression wars.

NeoWhiteWolf · Post by **NeoWhiteWolf** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 6:46 pm

I read somewhere that it took a man of prestige or true skill to join the SS....now a man of prestige isnt going to the front line the skilled will...And I have met survivors of the wra who fought in the Waffen at a Military event ....THey most of the times didnt care about trivial matters such as Jewish annihilation... there job was to fight...if they were ordered to kill 10000 civilians they would do it...they werent brainwashhed...they were true soildiers who fought and followed orders....its called discipline without emotion.

Im sorry if you some of you ppl cant get through your heads that most soldiers werent "Evil"....more like 95% of them fought....Hey lets get technical now..lets bring up the US Marines in the pacific...on okinawa they killed 1000's of civilians because theyw ere told to fight...most had sticks and rocks or maybe a outching fork...Or the French who killed 100's of German Sypmethisers....WW2 brought out the bad side out of everyone...You cant say they were evil...the SS officers at the top maybe were doing something morrally wrong but those bellow may have not had a choice...

I hate these kinda rants

[ December 07, 2001: Message edited by: Richard WhiteWolf ]</p>

Mikimoto · Post by **Mikimoto** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 7:01 pm

Most Waffen-SS troops (of non german ethnic origin) were employed in dirty tasks in the rearguard and/or anti-partisan warfare, they weren't front line units.

As example of infamous reknown were some Ucrainian Waffen-ss units in Poland/Varsaw, or russian ethnic Waffen-ss in North Italy, Muslim Bosnian and Croatians in the Balkans... whose bloody brutality is well recordered and remembered.

AmmoSgt · Post by **AmmoSgt** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 7:13 pm

The attrocities comitted by the German Army and the German people were not Trivial, nor were they anti-jewish "Incidents" they were attrocities. Such statements that attempt to minimize and dismiss such horrors are themselves outragious. The claim that Germans did not care, I find to be both damning and true. The Lesson to be learned from WW2 is that you do not forsake your humanity and swear personal allegiance to dictators posing as false Gods ,and that you cannot forsake your personal Honor without folks noticing, and cannot escape the personal consequences of your personal conduct. It still seems some folks cannot grasp that they are responsible for what they do, and that "Just Following Orders" is not a defense.