Matrix has shocked me with this Patch silliness.

[tsimmonds]

Downloading the original game was a three-day ordeal for me. The patch is also turning out to be a nightmare; I may not be able to download it at all since my satellite ISP seems to be routing my signal through Voyager I. The game turns out to have quite a number of map, OOB, and functional issues with which I happen to disagree. Each turn requires thousands of clicks and miles of scrolling.

None of this matters to me in the slightest, I love this game! I consider it just this side of a miracle that it has been made at all. I know that eventually Matrix will get all of this ironed out, and I am going to play War in the Pacific for the rest of my life. I would no sooner b1tch about any of this than I would file for divorce because my wife snores. Matrix, I think you guys are great. It amazes me what some people expect for their paltry $70 in addition to the incredible amount of work represented by the game itself. People, it is a beautiful Saturday afternoon, and may I suggest that a few of us need get up and go spend some time outside, away from our computers.

[Culiacan Mexico]

ORIGINAL: doomonyou

Listen up boys. What I bought from you is a PREMIUM game. I paid as much for this game and its attendant mailed cd as I pay for two normal games. Then I go and have to jump through more !@#$ hoops to download a stupid patch than I do to E-File my taxes off of TurboTax.

THAT ISN'T RHETORIC, ITS FACTS.

I had some concerns when I first heard the complaints being aired: my wife has a tendency to clean my E-mail accounts and I wasn’t sure if I had any of my order information available. Marc Schwanebeck posted for someone else what to do in this instance and I followed those instructions.

Getting the patch was more involved than normal, but I have game that is not real ‘copy protected’. So there are trade off, but in my case it is well worth it. I am sorry you feel otherwise.

[Caltone]

Honestly I think any anger here needs to be directed at the hackers and pirates that force game companies to take counter measures. Stealing/cheating anything has always been the one act that just burns my bum

I have absolutely no use for anyone that would ever do such a thing. Despicable

You have to realize that the folks behind this game have put blood, sweat, and tears into it. Years of their lives. And you know what? It was worth it to us. What a masterpiece. I have been just about giddy with excitement since this game was announced and now since release, it's been a blast, niggles and all.

Thanks!

[Mynok]

Stealing/cheating anything has always been the one act that just burns my bum

I'm going to be a nitpicker here. Illegal copying and/or selling of copyrighted material is NOT stealing. It is copyright infringement. If it was thievery, than the original owner would be deprived of the item. In no case of copyright infringement is this true. Of course, that doesn't mean there aren't monetary damages to the copyright holder, but it is NOT STEALING. The RIAA and certain proprietary software folks have used these words that imply theft as propoganda in their war to hang on to an outdated and non-competitive business model.

That being clarified, I totally support the good proprietary software companies like Matrix who support and listen to their customers, and provide a good product at a great price.

[tsimmonds]

Illegal copying and/or selling of copyrighted material is NOT stealing. It is copyright infringement. If it was thievery, than the original owner would be deprived of the item. In no case of copyright infringement is this true.

It might not fit the Business Law I definition of theft, but it is the functional equivalent--one person is deprived of something to which he was entitled (a revenue stream) and another person gains something to which he was not (intellectual property)--as well as the moral equivalent. A copyright infringer is a thief, regardless of strict definitions; if he could not hide behind pretty words, if he could not think as he looked into a mirror, "well, what I do may not be nice, but at least I am not a thief", perhaps there would be less of it happening. If you take something that does not belong to you, you are a thief.

[John B]

I guess I was probably lucky in that I didn't have any problem with the game download, or the patch (once those first teething problems had been sorted.). And knowing my PC and its erratic ways (a bit like having a second wife) I burnt a copy of the game on a CD pronto and wrote on the serial no.

And yes, I've now re-started the campaign game after installing the patch. Strictly speaking I don't think that's essential, but I'd made so many mistakes first time around (like losing two of my CVs in a way that would have had me court-martialled) that I was quite content to treat that first effort as an extended tutorial and start again. And am I doing any better this time around? Er, well, too soon to say, I think[:(]

Somebody like Matrix must make such relatively small profit on what are, unfortunately, minority interest games, that I can't blame them for taking steps to protect themselves from being ripped off.

[mogami]

Hi, I think it is stealing. The Cable company thinks it is stealing. The owner may not be deprived of the item but he is clearly deprived of his customer and he is clearly deprived of the "PROFIT" from his labour.
It's the same logic a newspaper or magazine seller uses when he tells you "buy it or put it down" Your not stealing the item but you are stealing. Using that "It's not stealing" logic it would be ok to enter a movie theatre without paying.

At issue is not whether or not aperson is deprived of his property but whether or not another person aquires "the service of" or "reward of" the product without paying the price it is placed on market at. Clearly the intent of piracy is to obtain said product without paying for it. And that is stealing.

[Xargun]

ORIGINAL: doomonyou

I don't really care what the excuses are. This is the most expensive computer game I have ever purchased bar nothing. This particular patch experience was the most aggravating I have had in quite some time.

You want annoying ?? Remember a game called SIN ? You paid your $50 (or around there) took it home, installed it and POOF nothing worked... The game right out of the box was crap and you had to download a 40 Meg patch just so it would run.. And thats back in the days before everyone had DSL or cable modems.. Try downloading 40 Meg on a 33.6 modem....

Personally I am happy with WitP right now and may never patch... I luckily didn't have any CTD or sound issues and did not even need the interim patch. I will probably patch some time in the future but for now I see now real point as the game is completely playable as it stands...

Oh BTW, I'd had the game for just over a month and have already gotten my $70 worth..

Xargun

[vonSchnitter]

Hi Gents,

just came home and had alook for new events on this board - like helpfull things on new findings, new errata, changes of unit mechanics by the patch etc.

And whats up ? A few new threads on how shabbily Matrix treat their customers. Makes me wonder. Really.

Here is my "experience": Bought the game a day or two after release - download went ok first go.

Installed it, ran it without any issues - sound or whatever. Installed the first "quick fix" patches - just to follow suit.
And enjoied plaing the game against the ai to learn the mechanics.

Did burn a CD with the complete installs - including a txt file with the DR confirmation info on the order and serial number. Thats it.

The game runs well - not a single hick up to date - and plays well without real show stoppers - in the self study department. Patches have been announced early and promises with 1.20 have been kept.

Even the download of the patch 1.2 worked at the first go.

I understand, that the wargaming community is different from the say flight simmulation crowd - a lot more of older ( not to say anemic) pc-systems still in use, etc.
But in any case, a little common sense tells, that it pays off to do some housekeeping on a pc - esp on an older one, to keep in good shape and up to the task.

And since we are in 2004 the news about the need of d/l managers to keep slow speed or just lousy and unstable internetconnections usefull should have spread a little more.

To me this is a kind of non-issue. It is just a couple of users, who have not done their homework. It has nothing to do with the game or the publisher.

Now for that serial number registration thing. Matrix just enforces the need to register your legal copy of a software product with them. And if you did, you have acces to the patches. This is just a kind of copy protection scheme, to deny "leaked" copy owners acces to patches. So this is - in my view - a good thing to reduce software piracy, may increase their sales, which in turn will yield better support and probably more games. It is a perfectly sound and sober business practice.

Sorry to say it: But all this type of bickering and bitching is just rediculous - in my view.

Cheers
vonSchnitter

[Temple]

I know this is going to be considered fan boy comments, but I didn't have any problems with the initial download, the CD arrival, or downloading the patch. I was a bit miffed at the tutorial hiccup that cost me progress in that, but it was fixed in a day so no big deal.

As far as the cost, well, if you consider $70 too expensive for a game that will give you hundreds of hours of enjoyment, but will pay $40 for a "Max Payne" type that will provide, what, maybe twenty or even fourty hours of use before you shelve it, then you should really think about your priorities.

I consider the money I spent as an investment in Matrix and 2X3. I'm voting with my money to say "I like this type of game and I'm willing to pay for it and deal with the complexity of the registration and download process, so that you will consider developing and marketing more of these games". I don't consider the PDF manuals a problem since I'm knee deep in printers, but even so, it's not that big an investment, about $20 for the B&W printout of the manual. BTW, I printed my manuals with a layout of four pages on a single sheet and it's quite reasonable to read, ask Kinkos or whoever to price it for you that way.

[pompack]

ORIGINAL: vonSchnitter

Hi Gents,

just came home and had alook for new events on this board - like helpfull things on new findings, new errata, changes of unit mechanics by the patch etc.

And whats up ? A few new threads on how shabbily Matrix treat their customers. Makes me wonder. Really.

Here is my "experience": Bought the game a day or two after release - download went ok first go.

Installed it, ran it without any issues - sound or whatever. Installed the first "quick fix" patches - just to follow suit.
And enjoied plaing the game against the ai to learn the mechanics.

Did burn a CD with the complete installs - including a txt file with the DR confirmation info on the order and serial number. Thats it.

The game runs well - not a single hick up to date - and plays well without real show stoppers - in the self study department. Patches have been announced early and promises with 1.20 have been kept.

Even the download of the patch 1.2 worked at the first go.

I understand, that the wargaming community is different from the say flight simmulation crowd - a lot more of older ( not to say anemic) pc-systems still in use, etc.
But in any case, a little common sense tells, that it pays off to do some housekeeping on a pc - esp on an older one, to keep in good shape and up to the task.

And since we are in 2004 the news about the need of d/l managers to keep slow speed or just lousy and unstable internetconnections usefull should have spread a little more.

To me this is a kind of non-issue. It is just a couple of users, who have not done their homework. It has nothing to do with the game or the publisher.

Now for that serial number registration thing. Matrix just enforces the need to register your legal copy of a software product with them. And if you did, you have acces to the patches. This is just a kind of copy protection scheme, to deny "leaked" copy owners acces to patches. So this is - in my view - a good thing to reduce software piracy, may increase their sales, which in turn will yield better support and probably more games. It is a perfectly sound and sober business practice.

Sorry to say it: But all this type of bickering and bitching is just rediculous - in my view.

Cheers
vonSchnitter

Well said vonSchnitter!!![8D]

I also loaded the game without a hitch, glitch or ... The first thing I did after downloading (of course) was to record the serial number in about five separate places for safe-keeping since I knew that I would need it later. The second thing I did was to burn a CD just in case something happened before the CD arrived in the mail (I didn't need it of course, but it just made me feel better to have it handy just in case I had a disk crash). Then I played the game, began learning the system and enjoyed it enormously.

When people started talking about the patch being imminent, I took the time to register (no problems encountered there either).

When the patch was finally blessed, I downloaded it easily, installed and started running with zero problems, issues or even petty irritations.

I think that most people had experiences like ours but it is hard to tell that just by reading this forum.

[gunnergoz]

1. Nobody forced anyone to buy this game.
2. Everybody is free to upgrade or not.
3. Matrix is free to run their business as they wish.
4. The marketplace is the only arbiter of what works and what does not.
5. Let nature take its course; If this isn't a good business formula, Darwin will determine what is.

[Gudgeon]

This thread makes me a little misty-eyed for the good old days of dialup internet surfing. Trying to download something off of the SSI website and after it started going to mow the lawn, walk the dog, take a nap, and then read a book. I used to get a lot more done around here back then. I was a little irritated with the 45 minutes it took to download the game and patch via cable. Thanks for putting it back into perspective for me!

[Erik Rutins]

Gentlemen,

I'm glad it worked well for you and many others. We appreciated the support. However, we really need to hear from customers for whom it is not working well so that we can make sure everyone has a positive experience. As is, we've already collected a number of suggestions. I'm doing a review of the Members Area right now after one conference call and we're scheduled to have another tonight. We don't want any of our customers to be unhappy, but if they are, we want to hear it so we can fix it.

Thanks again.

Regards,

- Erik

[2Stepper]

ORIGINAL: Xargun

You want annoying ?? Remember a game called SIN ? You paid your $50 (or around there) took it home, installed it and POOF nothing worked... The game right out of the box was crap and you had to download a 40 Meg patch just so it would run.. And thats back in the days before everyone had DSL or cable modems.. Try downloading 40 Meg on a 33.6 modem....

Personally I am happy with WitP right now and may never patch... I luckily didn't have any CTD or sound issues and did not even need the interim patch. I will probably patch some time in the future but for now I see now real point as the game is completely playable as it stands...

Oh BTW, I'd had the game for just over a month and have already gotten my $70 worth..

Xargun

Oh I bet if we all put our collective memories together we could come up with roughly 100 games that have just simply gone wrong. My personal favorite computer disaster is the original Starfleet Command by a company I won't name since they don't exist anymore. LOL!

At any rate, version 1.0 was COMPLETELY unplayable off the shelf. So much so they had 3 patches out within a few days of release... None of which got the game working. I was SO intent on playing it, it took the 4th patch and 6wks of waiting to get going... I then got my moneys worth playing... There's others, but that one is the tops...

My point? I think it shows a TON of class by matrix and 2by3 to do the work to get this game going and KEEP it going for those of us that have the interest. You know the thing about small groups of dedicated players? Well, we have a tendency of telling our friends how great something is... End result is a bigger customer base then expected. So while ya, there might be little glurps and burps over how this is patched or downloaded, I could care less about that. As long as the end result is positive? I'm all for it!!!! These guys are on top of the game and are out for customer satisfaction! That says a TON!

Dare I mention a game that actually got cancelled? Could you guys imagine what that would have done? I followed a game about 3yrs ago for a good 9 months that was in development... Had a solid forum fan base (much like this one), and the company in question just decided that the base wasn't good enough and wouldn't make them any money. They canx'd the game and didn't even look back. Oddly enough? You don't even hear their name much anymore! LOL! Go figure... Matrix has it right, we just need to give them the chance and the credit they deserve... [8D]

<pant> Okay, I'm off my soapbox... Tirade complete! LOL! [:D][8D]

EDIT:

Gentlemen,

I'm glad it worked well for you and many others. We appreciated the support. However, we really need to hear from customers for whom it is not working well so that we can make sure everyone has a positive experience. As is, we've already collected a number of suggestions. I'm doing a review of the Members Area right now after one conference call and we're scheduled to have another tonight. We don't want any of our customers to be unhappy, but if they are, we want to hear it so we can fix it.

Thanks again.

Regards,

- Erik

Oh, I hear you Erik, and please don't misunderstand from my post that I don't want people complaining... It's important and healthy... Though the louder rumbles are a little rough to read when from ones own perspective things are going so well... You're doing your best to take care of everyone, and I think its of value that you know its appreciated. [8D]

[Mr.Frag]

I fondly remember various Adventure games where you'll invest 80 odd hours only to run into a show stopper bug that basically prevented you from continuing any further. Bungee had that, Sierra is famous for that, the list goes on and on where the game was completely useless and was NEVER patched to fix the issue.

[2Stepper]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

I fondly remember various Adventure games where you'll invest 80 odd hours only to run into a show stopper bug that basically prevented you from continuing any further. Bungee had that, Sierra is famous for that, the list goes on and on where the game was completely useless and was NEVER patched to fix the issue.

Sierra was actually the one that cancelled a game that I thought would have been a gem! But it laid out dead on the matt without looking back. Then there was Interplay, but they too are a bad memory for most. LOL! Situations like those are why I have the respect I do for Matrix for making the gargantuan effort this game took. [8D]

[gunnergoz]

Like I said, market forces will prevail. A company like Matrix will adapt, learn and implement changes to suit the customer base and their business strategy. All is well and working fine in this small corner of the world. [:D]

[TheHellPatrol]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

I fondly remember various Adventure games where you'll invest 80 odd hours only to run into a show stopper bug that basically prevented you from continuing any further. Bungee had that, Sierra is famous for that, the list goes on and on where the game was completely useless and was NEVER patched to fix the issue.

[:D]Elmo's Big Adventure[:D]Why Mr. Frag![;)]

[SlapBone]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Gentlemen,

I'm glad it worked well for you and many others. We appreciated the support. However, we really need to hear from customers for whom it is not working well so that we can make sure everyone has a positive experience. As is, we've already collected a number of suggestions. I'm doing a review of the Members Area right now after one conference call and we're scheduled to have another tonight. We don't want any of our customers to be unhappy, but if they are, we want to hear it so we can fix it.

Thanks again.

Regards,

- Erik

Since this thread has been hijacked I'm going to ask this question again before putting out my own topic.

Has there been any discussion of getting the manuals to this game (and Starshatter) on Kinkos Doc Center to make getting them printed a little more affordable to the people (all of us) who paid $70 for the game?