Overrun!

El_Peco · Post by **El_Peco** » Mon Dec 03, 2001 7:46 pm

In a pbem with a friends, I tried to overrun with my stug a machine gun, but the unit refused the order because it was out of ammo(not enough shoot).....
But a unit when overruns tries to "compress" enemy soldiers under its tracks, isn't it?
And then why a stug without ammo can't overrun?

Regards.

Lars Remmen · Post by **Lars Remmen** » Mon Dec 03, 2001 9:16 pm

Hi, An overrun attack is not only using the tracks. It is also (mostly?) fireing the guns at point blank range. I doubt very much that a tank with no ammo would charge enemy infantry in the hope that it could crush a few of them under its tracks without being able to counter a Bazooka or Panzerfaust five metres away. Better to rearm and come back with all guns blazing.

Regards,

Lars

Grumble · Post by **Grumble** » Mon Dec 03, 2001 9:50 pm

But a unit when overruns tries to "compress" enemy soldiers under its tracks, isn't it?

I think if you look at overruns as the mechanized equivalent of a cavalry charge it may help. The key is psychology: "Oh my God those guys on horses/huge tracked things are going to run over me!" Never mind that the horses would most likely pull up short to avoid a collision; to the AVERAGE soldier they will displace to get out of the way.
AFV overruns work the same way, large noisy tracked machines are intimidating and the psychological threat of being literally run down (in the case of ATGs/MGs this IS the case) forces people to run away. Although the actual chances of the vehicle targeting YOU are fairly small. MG fire is a key part of this, adding to the emotional and physical stress-main guns less so. The game very accurately depicts the effects of this situation IMHO.

RichardTheFirst · Post by **RichardTheFirst** » Mon Dec 03, 2001 10:04 pm

I liked the comparison with the charge. Anyway: I also overrun a lot with halftracks with very good results.

KG Erwin · Post by **KG Erwin** » Mon Dec 03, 2001 10:50 pm

The screams of the enemy MG crew getting squashed are particularly satisfying if the bastards had just killed 3 or 4 of my poor bloody infantry. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

asgrrr · Post by **asgrrr** » Mon Dec 03, 2001 10:51 pm

Could anyone give a semicomplete list of vehicle types that can overrun. Also, how much defensive bonus does terrain (woods?) give against overrun? One might imagine it would be considerable, but that is not my experience with the game.

Larry Holt · Post by **Larry Holt** » Mon Dec 03, 2001 11:02 pm

Originally posted by Penetrator:
Could anyone give a semicomplete list of vehicle types that can overrun. Also, how much defensive bonus does terrain (woods?) give against overrun? One might imagine it would be considerable, but that is not my experience with the game.

I believe that any tracked vehicle can overun while wheeled ones cannot. This leads to the situation where German SPAA mounted on an unarmored tracked prime mover (can't recall the designation) can overrun while wheeled armored cars cannot.

pax27 · Post by **pax27** » Tue Dec 04, 2001 1:19 am

Posted By Gruble:

I think if you look at overruns as the mechanized equivalent of a cavalry charge it may help. The key is psychology: "Oh my God those guys on horses/huge tracked things are going to run over me!" Never mind that the horses would most likely pull up short to avoid a collision; to the AVERAGE soldier they will displace to get out of the way.
AFV overruns work the same way

Do you actually mean that the AFV´s also pull up short to avoid collision <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

Khan7 · Post by **Khan7** » Tue Dec 04, 2001 3:31 am

Hmm.. I'm not sure it's so much FEAR that gives a cavalry (this includes AFVs) charge it's power, more like momentum. I mean if you've got several dozen tons of steel bearing down on you, it doesn't matter how scared/not scared you are, you'd better get out of the way.

Of course if you're REALLY brave, you could try and duck under the thing and shove a sticky bomb or somesuch into/onto some vulnerable spot, but to do this without special training would be crazy/suicidal <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

And of course I believe that an AFV overrun in this game represents the whole range of close-combat AFV manuevers, including firing and such. The physical act of overrunning wouldn't necessarily cause casualties directly as much as tactically outmanuever the infantry.

Of course with a speedy tank on nice, flat terrain, I wouldn't be so averse to a bit of bumper-grunts <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

Matt

Figmo · Post by **Figmo** » Tue Dec 04, 2001 8:01 am

I REALLY like the overruns and feel they are well represented in the game. Although, my wife hates it - she hears it and says "Did you have to do that"!! The answer is YYEESS!!!! <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

generalrichmond · Post by **generalrichmond** » Tue Dec 04, 2001 9:46 am

HAHAHAHA!!! well, get her near when a German Flammpanzer or something like that scorches an infantry squad. She'll bust your monitor for that!

Seriously, one vehicle we forgot about for overruns was probably that magic carpet raft...

Ok, that wasn't serious. But it would be a trip to see it squash a squad! <flop!> AAUUUUGHH!!

Shakaali · Post by **Shakaali** » Tue Dec 04, 2001 11:58 am

I also like overruns a lot. Imagine this: driver trying to get those poor bastards under the tracks, gunners firing their MG:s all over without aiming, and tank commander gone berzek standing up in the turret hatch firing his pistol and throwing hand grenades, screaming his head off <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

BTW, is it possible to overrun an artillery piece?

AC · Post by AC » Tue Dec 04, 2001 4:54 pm

Originally posted by Shakaali:
I also like overruns a lot. Imagine this: driver trying to get those poor bastards under the tracks, gunners firing their MG:s all over without aiming, and tank commander gone berzek standing up in the turret hatch firing his pistol and throwing hand grenades, screaming his head off <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

BTW, is it possible to overrun an artillery piece?

If I recall correctly, it is possible. Did it a couple of times. However, there is a chance that the overrunning vehicle gets stuck.

AC

El_Peco · Post by **El_Peco** » Tue Dec 04, 2001 4:57 pm

I agree with who says that mg are very important during an overrun.
However, it's possible for tanks without mg (for example the first model of stug)do an overrun.
Then, above all with a stug that can't turn its main gun, I think that it's hard to use main gun during an overrun (also counting reloading time), and then I come back to my first question, it would be possible to make overrun without ammo.

Regards.

Phil Buster · Post by **Phil Buster** » Tue Dec 04, 2001 5:20 pm

Peco, I can´t consider an overrun without ammo as an offensive tactic. I think it´s posible in a desperate situation, with enemy infantry all around the AFV. The only way to survive would be overrun anyithing you find between you and your retreat direction. But it wouldn´t be realistic to use it as a new weapon when you haven´t got any other and insist on your advance.

Shakaali · Post by **Shakaali** » Tue Dec 04, 2001 5:41 pm

Originally posted by Phil Buster:
Peco, I can´t consider an overrun without ammo as an offensive tactic. I think it´s posible in a desperate situation, with enemy infantry all around the AFV. The only way to survive would be overrun anyithing you find between you and your retreat direction. But it wouldn´t be realistic to use it as a new weapon when you haven´t got any other and insist on your advance.

I think overrun without ammo can in some cases be used as an offence. For instance, when a tank is assaulting enemy defence line, driving at high speed, and fires it's last round just seconds before reaching the enemy infantry. I don't think the driver would hit the breaks and start to back up. I think the tank would rush through the defence line, hatches closed, trying to squash some unfortunate enemy soldiers, creating panic. Of course this kind of situation isn't very common, but, however, possible.

[ December 04, 2001: Message edited by: Shakaali ]</p>

panda124c · Post by **panda124c** » Tue Dec 04, 2001 6:09 pm

Originally posted by Shakaali:

BTW, is it possible to overrun an artillery piece?

Yes! it's the best way to get rid of those 50mm Russian Mortars.

El_Peco · Post by **El_Peco** » Tue Dec 04, 2001 6:27 pm

To Phil Buster:
I agree with you, it can't be considered an offesive tactic, but my basic question is another.
Why a stug with a 75 mm gun can overrun (and I presume that crew can't use the gun at very short range) and a stug without ammo can't?
If crew doesn't use gun, where is the difference?
By the way, what means the words at the end of message, are you from Pais Vasque?
I'm a fan of Athletic Bilbao, I love their strategy: only euskadi players in the team, no stranger!

Regards.

generalrichmond · Post by **generalrichmond** » Tue Dec 04, 2001 6:30 pm

well, if we remember that when a squad is broken down to the point that it disperses, that not all the soldiers have been killed but rather the unit rendered combat-ineffective, then overrun makes more sense. Charge an AFV through a squad that has taken a few casualties. Watch as half of them freak out and fail to return to battle form. That I think portrays part of the power of overrun. Not always an issue of dead or not, or just being shot.

Shakaali · Post by **Shakaali** » Tue Dec 04, 2001 6:31 pm

Originally posted by pbear:

Yes! it's the best way to get rid of those 50mm Russian Mortars.

Thanks <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Is it also possible to overrun larger artillery pieces, such as howitzers or those damned German 88s?