I wanted to see if I could take Jolo on Turn 2 without resorting to abusing the 1st turn movement rules. I see Jolo as a nice place to launch strikes at naval assets fleeing the SRA and plundering it of supplies. To accomplish this, I did the following:
12/7/41
1. Transfer all nearby Topsy II's to Saigon and rest them
2. Transfer 5 squadrons of Mavis and one of L3Y's to Kiungaham and set them to airlift the 1st Para to Jolo
3. Transfer 2 squadrons of Nells and 1 of Betty's to Saigon, set them to attack Jolo.
4. Set the Shoho CVL group to strike Jolo and patrol for naval forces around Jolo.
5. Send a SAG to Jolo to intercept potential Bombardment groups.
12/8/41
5. Deliberate attack Jolo.
6. Transfer H6K's back to patrol areas and set back to naval search temporarily reduced to lower fatigue.
12/9/41
6. Send a fast transport TF and a slow one both with supplies to Jolo.
7. Airlift the 11th Special base force from Saigon
8. Transfer fighters (A6M2 or Oscar Ib) and bombers (not sure yet) to Jolo. Set bombers and aircraft to naval attack, escort with 60 cap
12/10/41
9. Conduct air transfer and supply ops with Topsy's until supplies arrive from transports.
10. Withdrawn Shoho after transports unload
I may have some of the timing off, since I am at wrk atm. In any case,
1) Is it gamey to use Mavis to airdrop troops?
2) How can I expect a PBEM player to react to this?
3) Is this worthwhile if the house rule you are using restricts turn 1 movement invasions?
Operation Monk. Gamey?
Moderators: wdolson, Don Bowen, mogami
Operation Monk. Gamey?
"There is no Black or White, only shades of Grey."
"If you aren't a part of the solution, you're a part of the problem."
"If you aren't a part of the solution, you're a part of the problem."
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AmiralLaurent
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RE: Operation Monk. Gamey?
I don't know if it is possible to use Mavis (either the patrol of transport version) to drop paras.
Anyway, your planning is wrong. Paras launch shock attack when they are dropped so Jolo will be taken on turn 1 or your para will be in a poor state after their failure.
And for your questions:
1) no, if it's possible in the game
2) my reaction will be to bombard Jolo with Dutch planes
3) my own home rule for turn 1 is to limit movements that will have started the war before. The only reason because the British didn't attack the convoys sailing to Malaya was the small chance they were only targeting Thailand. So sending TF to Kendari, Amboina or other places like that is forbidden. But a para drop will be done without any warning so it's OK for me.
Anyway, your planning is wrong. Paras launch shock attack when they are dropped so Jolo will be taken on turn 1 or your para will be in a poor state after their failure.
And for your questions:
1) no, if it's possible in the game
2) my reaction will be to bombard Jolo with Dutch planes
3) my own home rule for turn 1 is to limit movements that will have started the war before. The only reason because the British didn't attack the convoys sailing to Malaya was the small chance they were only targeting Thailand. So sending TF to Kendari, Amboina or other places like that is forbidden. But a para drop will be done without any warning so it's OK for me.
RE: Operation Monk. Gamey?
ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent
I don't know if it is possible to use Mavis (either the patrol of transport version) to drop paras.
I already tried it and it worked.
ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent
Anyway, your planning is wrong. Paras launch shock attack when they are dropped so Jolo will be taken on turn 1 or your para will be in a poor state after their failure.
I could not remember what turn it occurred on. and whether the attack was a shock attack or not.
ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent
And for your questions:
1) no, if it's possible in the game
2) my reaction will be to bombard Jolo with Dutch planes
Yeah. I was thinking that transferring in a squadron of A6M2's for CAP would make that pretty costly. Unfortunately, there aren't enough A6M2's around at start. I would have to use one of the squadrons around Saigon for that.
ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent
3) my own home rule for turn 1 is to limit movements that will have started the war before. The only reason because the British didn't attack the convoys sailing to Malaya was the small chance they were only targeting Thailand. So sending TF to Kendari, Amboina or other places like that is forbidden. But a para drop will be done without any warning so it's OK for me.
Yeah, but is it worth the effort? Looking at the map, Jolo is a size 4 AF that puts Nell's/Betty's in range of alot of the SRA. Do I risk too much by eliminating taking these guys away from Malaya?
"There is no Black or White, only shades of Grey."
"If you aren't a part of the solution, you're a part of the problem."
"If you aren't a part of the solution, you're a part of the problem."
RE: Operation Monk. Gamey?
Yeah, but is it worth the effort? Looking at the map, Jolo is a size 4 AF that puts Nell's/Betty's in range of alot of the SRA. Do I risk too much by eliminating taking these guys away from Malaya?
That is one of the compromises that you would have to decide upon.
[8|]
There is probably no right answer
Not gamey in my book. Resources used here are not being used elsewhere. It looks like a significant amount of planning needs to go into this one, so, IMHO fair play for PBEM
Appear at places to which he must hasten; move swiftly where he does not expect you.
Sun Tzu
Sun Tzu
RE: Operation Monk. Gamey?
It Depends on how many Nells/Betties you send to Jolo. I mean if you base 3 or four Squadrons there it will probably hamper your Maylaya Campaign. But IF you are looking strategicly and want to crush any surface forces that may be a thrat later then maybe not. I would think a group of Fighters to protect teh base and then 2 squadrons of Nells/Betties would dominate all of the Borneo/ Sulawasei region/Northern Papua and possibly Soerbaja as well. It woud also make taking Borneo and Kendari/Ambonia easier. THe AI has done just this in my game and it is making it difficult to get supplies to my forward bases at Kendari and Balikpapan. This wil also be a blocking for for surface raiders and evacuation operations.
UB
UB
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AmiralLaurent
- Posts: 3351
- Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 8:53 pm
- Location: Near Paris, France
RE: Operation Monk. Gamey?
All my invasions in Dec 1941 are targetting airfields. They are deemed operationnal when they have at least 200+ av support, an Air HQ, 27 Zeroes, 27 Nells/Betties and some patrol planes, and enough supplies to support them.
Well, I was thinking of night bombing.
First I limit the range of my Nells/Betties to the range of their escort, or you will see valuable bombers and crews shot down by obsolete fighters.
Then my Nells and Betties are never used in a tactical role: IJA bombers are here for that. The Saigon bombers have two main roles first: sink the British capital ships off Singapore if they come N or E and pound Singapore airfield if the Allied concentrates planes here. Once the PoW and Repulse are out, I fly them to any advance base I now have. But I will not send them to Jolo immediatly. If the British + Dutch fleet strike your Malaya convoys it can be really nasty.
Same thing for the Manila bombers. They are here to bomb Clark Field airfield on turn 1 and Manila port, or TF loading in Manila. Once Allied ships and planes have deserted the area, they will not spend a minute bombing ground troops.
ORIGINAL: Oznoyng
Yeah. I was thinking that transferring in a squadron of A6M2's for CAP would make that pretty costly. Unfortunately, there aren't enough A6M2's around at start. I would have to use one of the squadrons around Saigon for that.
Well, I was thinking of night bombing.
ORIGINAL: Oznoyng
Yeah, but is it worth the effort? Looking at the map, Jolo is a size 4 AF that puts Nell's/Betty's in range of alot of the SRA. Do I risk too much by eliminating taking these guys away from Malaya?
First I limit the range of my Nells/Betties to the range of their escort, or you will see valuable bombers and crews shot down by obsolete fighters.
Then my Nells and Betties are never used in a tactical role: IJA bombers are here for that. The Saigon bombers have two main roles first: sink the British capital ships off Singapore if they come N or E and pound Singapore airfield if the Allied concentrates planes here. Once the PoW and Repulse are out, I fly them to any advance base I now have. But I will not send them to Jolo immediatly. If the British + Dutch fleet strike your Malaya convoys it can be really nasty.
Same thing for the Manila bombers. They are here to bomb Clark Field airfield on turn 1 and Manila port, or TF loading in Manila. Once Allied ships and planes have deserted the area, they will not spend a minute bombing ground troops.
RE: Operation Monk. Gamey?
I guess I should clarify. The bomber squadrons come from those in Japan, not in Indochina.
"There is no Black or White, only shades of Grey."
"If you aren't a part of the solution, you're a part of the problem."
"If you aren't a part of the solution, you're a part of the problem."
RE: Operation Monk. Gamey?
You can still take Kendari by turn 6 even without the turn 1 warp (even though they do not arrive until turn 2).
Nells go there. Vals and Kates go to Jolo or Davao. Object is to sink those dang sub tenders. With Nells at Kendari and Siagon the DEI and PI are now untennable. If you really want to be evil invade Palembang turn 1. Now the whole area is doomed.
Nells go there. Vals and Kates go to Jolo or Davao. Object is to sink those dang sub tenders. With Nells at Kendari and Siagon the DEI and PI are now untennable. If you really want to be evil invade Palembang turn 1. Now the whole area is doomed.
RE: Operation Monk. Gamey?
How do you take Kendari on turn 2 without using the turn 1 movement bonus?
"There is no Black or White, only shades of Grey."
"If you aren't a part of the solution, you're a part of the problem."
"If you aren't a part of the solution, you're a part of the problem."
RE: Operation Monk. Gamey?
If you send the invasion force out on turn 1 they will not arrive until turn 2. At the end of turn 1 they are about 2 hexes away (maybe 1). They will invade turn 2 with capture turn 3-4. If you load on turn 1, but not send until turn 2 they will arrive about turn 6. Or you can send with Patrol orders just outside of Dutch waters and proceed turn 2 should arrive turn 4 with capture turn 5-6.
Even with the "warp" they cannot make it turn 1. They might with the 4500 size AP's since they are faster, but with 1500 and 3000 they will not make it.
All depends on if your opponent will let you do the hover move or not.
Even with the "warp" they cannot make it turn 1. They might with the 4500 size AP's since they are faster, but with 1500 and 3000 they will not make it.
All depends on if your opponent will let you do the hover move or not.
RE: Operation Monk. Gamey?
I think an allied player will fight for Kendari, maybe now more than ever [:D]. Flying troops in from Macassar etc, probably not be enough though.
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AmiralLaurent
- Posts: 3351
- Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 8:53 pm
- Location: Near Paris, France
RE: Operation Monk. Gamey?
ORIGINAL: Moquia
I think an allied player will fight for Kendari, maybe now more than ever [:D]. Flying troops in from Macassar etc, probably not be enough though.
They will probably not arrive in time to save it but I will send immediatly PoW and Repulse in the area, with all available Dutch and British cruisers. I doubt Kendari will be usable before a Japanese CV TF arrives in the area, or the Japanese took another airfield closer to Palau.
RE: Operation Monk. Gamey?
Some one already tried the POW and Repulse, they got jumped by Nells around Tobali and hammered. That was on turn 3 by the way. 3 baby carriers with around 45 Kates and 20 Zeros escort the day 6 invasion. Plus about some surface warfare groups numbering 4 CA, 6 CL and about 18 DD's. Kendari will fall. If I take Davao turn 2 or 3 it really does not matter because Nells and Zeros will be based there for additional support. Either way you go really most of the DEI and PI should be isolated by turn 7 at the latest. Saving the AS ships in Manila is the allied main concern (if you can not resupply from other countries AS ships) and the IJN mission to kill.
If the allied player also gets to move his forces turn 1 just about every Nell and Betty gets turned to Naval attack and waits for the duck hunt to begin on turn 1. I will forgo the airfield attacks to get my licks in on his shipping before I turn my attention elsewhere.
If the allied player also gets to move his forces turn 1 just about every Nell and Betty gets turned to Naval attack and waits for the duck hunt to begin on turn 1. I will forgo the airfield attacks to get my licks in on his shipping before I turn my attention elsewhere.
RE: Operation Monk. Gamey?
Surely anyone going for an early Palembang capture is just asking for a wrecked Oil Industry.
If Singapore still stands won't B17's from Singapore cause a lot of grief to the Japanese Oil Industry.
As for siezing Kendari or at least 1 SRA airfield I would say its a valid tactic to stop a few transports not sure its worth the strategic risk though.
As you do so at the risk of weakening other critical assaults like Malaya and the PI.
If you give either the British (Singapore) or the Americans (Clark/ Manila/Bataan) or even the Dutch (Batavia) a chance to fort up and get back on balance you face a significantly harder fight and diverting those few squadrons may sink a few already fleeing transports but at what price to the momentum of your advance.
Sinking a dozen more AK's and a few tankers is not worth delaying the fall of Singapore by a few days.
IMO The Japanese need to concentrate on getting Malaya and PI done as early as possible by using max power to ensure these objectives fall in a timely and resource efficient manner only once these two objectives are achieved can they get creative.
Andy
If Singapore still stands won't B17's from Singapore cause a lot of grief to the Japanese Oil Industry.
As for siezing Kendari or at least 1 SRA airfield I would say its a valid tactic to stop a few transports not sure its worth the strategic risk though.
As you do so at the risk of weakening other critical assaults like Malaya and the PI.
If you give either the British (Singapore) or the Americans (Clark/ Manila/Bataan) or even the Dutch (Batavia) a chance to fort up and get back on balance you face a significantly harder fight and diverting those few squadrons may sink a few already fleeing transports but at what price to the momentum of your advance.
Sinking a dozen more AK's and a few tankers is not worth delaying the fall of Singapore by a few days.
IMO The Japanese need to concentrate on getting Malaya and PI done as early as possible by using max power to ensure these objectives fall in a timely and resource efficient manner only once these two objectives are achieved can they get creative.
Andy
RE: Operation Monk. Gamey?
Against the AI (at least what I have seen so far) taking Palembang is a valid strategy.
The AI seems to prefer attacking airfields over the resources. 1 Oscar 1b group and a A6M2 group seem to halt 90% of these attacks.
Only tried Palembang turn 1 twice in PBEM. It is much more risky against a human though,
they seem to love attacking the resources.
Both Kendari and Ambonia can be taken without diverting any forces from the fight in Malaya. A/C based at these locations are transfered in from Japan or Tinian area after the PI air forces have been knocked down. I make extra heavy use of IJA bombers in the PI.
My Nells and Betty's are more important as anti ship platforms. Plus the IJA groups gain much needed experience. Malaya gets a mix of both IJA and IJN air groups.
The SNLF forces sieze most of the DEI, Borneo, PI while my combat Div and Brigades conquer mainland PI and Malaya while applying pressure on Burma. But at least 1 Brigade usually the 35th (took Kuching) is kept at Saigon prepping for the invasion of Java. But it depends on the opponent and his tactics/strategy as to which way I go. Some are the save and flee type and some are the fight/reinforce type.
One sneaky tactic I used was to form an empty transport TF with Palembang as its target (8 ap's and 3 ak's) just to draw out the POW and Repulse so my air force could get their licks in. Only worked 2 times both against human. The AI usually ignores it and flees to India with POW and Repulse.
The AI seems to prefer attacking airfields over the resources. 1 Oscar 1b group and a A6M2 group seem to halt 90% of these attacks.
Only tried Palembang turn 1 twice in PBEM. It is much more risky against a human though,
they seem to love attacking the resources.
Both Kendari and Ambonia can be taken without diverting any forces from the fight in Malaya. A/C based at these locations are transfered in from Japan or Tinian area after the PI air forces have been knocked down. I make extra heavy use of IJA bombers in the PI.
My Nells and Betty's are more important as anti ship platforms. Plus the IJA groups gain much needed experience. Malaya gets a mix of both IJA and IJN air groups.
The SNLF forces sieze most of the DEI, Borneo, PI while my combat Div and Brigades conquer mainland PI and Malaya while applying pressure on Burma. But at least 1 Brigade usually the 35th (took Kuching) is kept at Saigon prepping for the invasion of Java. But it depends on the opponent and his tactics/strategy as to which way I go. Some are the save and flee type and some are the fight/reinforce type.
One sneaky tactic I used was to form an empty transport TF with Palembang as its target (8 ap's and 3 ak's) just to draw out the POW and Repulse so my air force could get their licks in. Only worked 2 times both against human. The AI usually ignores it and flees to India with POW and Repulse.