CD fee?!?!

[fishfinder]

Was all set to purchase War in the Pacific but am a little perturbed to find out to learn that the advertised price does not include a backup CD. $69.00 is an awful lot of money for a computer game to find out at the checkout stand that there is a 22% additional charge to CYA. As one who has distributed CD/DVDs this seems a little exhorbitant. FREE SHIPPING my a$$.

maybe another time...

[Fallschirmjager]

You can make your own backup.

I put it on cd and zip disk both for backup.

[fishfinder]

The point is for $69 a disc should be included with printed manual and packaging displaying cool artwork. If the cost of printed documentation and traditional marketing are not included/associated with this product, why is it such an expensive purchase?

Pacific War introduced me to this computer game genre. Fortunately my wife doesn't know how much $$$ I've spent on wargames since. I have anticipated the release of this game since I first got wind (not divine) of it, which seems like a couple years or more ago. Now, unfortunately, I don't think I'll be adding it to my collection.

[Hertston]

Matrix have detailed their pricing policy at some length. WitP is a "premium" product, which means (apparently) it is a hard-core wargame rather than a mass market game with wider appeal. Potential purchasers are limited, but those who do buy will get more than enough out of it to justify the price.

What it's all about of course is the numbers. As with every other business, Matrix price their products at the figure they estimate will result in the biggest profit. Sure, if it was cheaper more would buy it, but how many more ? They will know their market and their customers. Actually I agree it's too expensive for me, which is why I havn't bought it. There are plenty of other games to play.

[Salient]

Yup, too expensive for me also.

[Error in 0]

If they make games that cost so much, I would appreciate a demo to play first. I will not spend 69$ on something I might end up hating, and then being unable to sell. Is the price justifiable? I have read a great many posts here from plp who would like to play it, but cannot afford it. As if the gengre itself wasn't enough to scare plp away, now the price does it too... [:(]

[Hexed Gamer]

Let's look at this in a different light.

A used subcompact is not a SUV and certainly not a hummer.

So what do you get with a used sub compact, something that works, likely is broke in but don't expect it to be oh wow flashy.

An SUV, well it is quite handy, can do most anything, but will likely cost you full normal price of a decent car.

The hummer isn't going to be free, but man it will be frickin awesome. And yes, the oh wow factor is right out there.

Sooooo, does it matter how you buy either of the three? Nope.

Matrix Games has decided if you want THEM to provide a cd then ask for it. Otherwise, with digital download, all you asked for was the download.
Get over it, it's all they sold you.

If you want the cd, then ask for it. But it matters not how cheap blank cds are, not even material.
And it certainly is not material to how they determined the price of the program.
Because if the program is worth 10 bucks or 100 bucks, that is the worth of the program.

WitP is clearly a significant program. If you want it, accept it.

If you want it on a cd, and can't burn it yourself, then put two and two together, and find someone to assist you (assuming you want to put it on your own 30 cent cd).

And if you don't have one single friend with a cd burner handy, ain't it about time you added one?
Or, considering how cheap cd burners are, why not just finally buy one.

http://www.canadacomputers.com/cdrom.html
CD burners starting at 34 bucks Canadian.
To cheap to even call an expense eh.

[Error in 0]

What you in essense say is that whatever price a company set, is the correct price. And if someone disagree, they are cheap? Stupid? What makes you KNOW that 69$ are the best price? And 10$ for a CD is a fair price? When you see a subcompact (whatever that is) to the price of a hummer, dont dare question it, just 'get over it'.

[PeckingFury]

Well just name a game that will last you the next 5 to ten years?? It is cheap in my opinion. How many games would you buy in this alloted time frame? Since you are on a gamming forum I would expect you to play games which would mean you would purchase the games, over the next 5 years how many games at 40 bucks a pop did you blow your money on over the past 5 years which probably came with a colorful map,a printed manual,and a box to set on your shelf collecting dust. If you are the least bit interested in the pacific war then you are really missing out on a gem. Just my 2 cents.

[Cmdrcain]

Get real...

Often if you want a CD of things you have to pay a fee.

You can download often manythings but like if i want a CD copy of the latest interface install of my Video card, its a $10 charge, shipping included in that, I can download and install the update but if I want a CD I have to pay.

Matrix is saving costs by digital download, frankly if those
complaining of wanting a paper manuel, cd etc got it the price likely for the game would be around $120

Mass marketed stuff in a box may have a printed manuel but thats mass merchandised stuff with the profit margin thinner.

I didn't like price either but saved for it and its worth it it will give one plenty of bang for their bucks.

Btw as to DEMOS , dang it, theres alot of games sold online and also in stores you DO NOT GET demos to try before buy!

[&o]

[Hexed Gamer]

Who said 69 US was thrilling?

It's going to have to wait till my christmas wish list in my case. I just ain't got that sort of mullah handy.

Who said 10 bucks for a cd was acceptable?

I just know, that only a dim person pays 10 bucks US to get a digital file burned to a cd when cd burners are already yesterdays news.
If it isn't the case where you live, then hmm I guess that sucks.

DVD burners are going for 59 bucks here, so even they are now a mundane item.

When I finally score the 69 bucks for the download, I will burn it to cd myself. Because to spend 10 bucks for a cd, is the same as spending 150 for ASL journal 2 (which means you are stupid and need your head checked).

But hey, if I was Matrix Games, I would not have problems with charging whatever I wanted for my products either.
If I felt it was worth 69 bucks, that's what I would want.
And if I felt the burning of a cd that would require a few valuable manhours was worth 10 bucks, that is what I would expect of the buyer.

The fact that it would take me 20 minutes or less to do it myself is not relevant.

What is relevant, is the fact it can be done so easily in 20 minutes onto a 30 cent cd on a mundane commonly found cd burner, is why are you insisting on Matrix Games do it at all?

And asking for a pretty box, to go with your sale?
That is to whacked out to reply to coherently. Every one of my wargame boxes is sitting in my basement. I am not sure why I have kept them. It's not because they are valuable though.
Maybe I have a weird thing for pretty boxes.
I am hoping to get that cured

[Error in 0]

ORIGINAL: Cmdrcain

Get real...

Often if you want a CD of things you have to pay a fee.

You can download often manythings but like if i want a CD copy of the latest interface install of my Video card, its a $10 charge, shipping included in that, I can download and install the update but if I want a CD I have to pay.

Matrix is saving costs by digital download, frankly if those
complaining of wanting a paper manuel, cd etc got it the price likely for the game would be around $120

Mass marketed stuff in a box may have a printed manuel but thats mass merchandised stuff with the profit margin thinner.

I didn't like price either but saved for it and its worth it it will give one plenty of bang for their bucks.

Btw as to DEMOS , dang it, theres alot of games sold online and also in stores you DO NOT GET demos to try before buy!

[&o]

Reality is that many has complained about the price and policy of some Matrix games. Reality is that they scould be able to criticise this whithout having to 'get over it'. How many of these people who want the game, but dont want to spend 79$ on it end up downloading it from the net for 0$? It took me 1 minute to find 2 Matrix titles on the net. It is even more tempting because you dont get less than you get from a Matrix DD (no manual or CD).

You say that often you have to pay extra for a game CD, and I disagree. In fact most potential new customers of WitP and games like it will disagree.

I guess many games comes without a demo. Its ok if I know what kind of game it is, and most of them are your standard FPS or something you know beforehand. Read a coule of reviews, and you get a good feel for the game. WitP is nothing like your standard DOOM clone, is it? I believe WitP is a complex game one might very well end up hating. A demo would maybe prove otherwise... I cannot see any real downside of providing a demo. The fact that some games don't have demos does not change this for me, as it does to you.

[Cmdrcain]

Yeah People:


Your thinking in simple terms, sure it only takes oh so many Mins to Burn onto what now is cheap Cd's but the fact is any fee for a CD provided includes all the Handling costs of that...

The handling cost of the salary of the person burning em and the salary cost in the handling of the person processing the insertion and mailing out of the Cd are in there.

What DR and Matrix really should have done was set the REGULAR price as the Price with a CD sent... and a DISCOUNT price if you only ordered a digital download and burnt your own..

Ie: $80 as the NORMAL, Regular price, CD included
with an OPTION to buy it for $70 as a Digital only download..

The fact is thats what it is, but that they simply mishandled the presentation making the CD an "extra" instead the Digital only way should be a "discount" price way.

Want Cd? Pay the normal price of $80, want a Discount? Pay $70

[Cmdrcain]

ORIGINAL: Hexed Gamer

for ASL journal 2 (which means you are stupid and need your head checked).


And asking for a pretty box, to go with your sale?
That is to whacked out to reply to coherently. Every one of my wargame boxes is sitting in my basement. I am not sure why I have kept them. It's not because they are valuable though.
Maybe I have a weird thing for pretty boxes.
I am hoping to get that cured

What is ASL? [:D]

As to Boxes, Gee I have every box for all the games I've bought laying about even back to my c-64 days... looking over at carrier Strike, Geopolitique, Battlecruiser, Midway, Nukewar, etc [:D]

[Error in 0]

ORIGINAL: Hexed Gamer

Who said 69 US was thrilling?

It's going to have to wait till my christmas wish list in my case. I just ain't got that sort of mullah handy.

Who said 10 bucks for a cd was acceptable?

I just know, that only a dim person pays 10 bucks US to get a digital file burned to a cd when cd burners are already yesterdays news.
If it isn't the case where you live, then hmm I guess that sucks.

DVD burners are going for 59 bucks here, so even they are now a mundane item.

When I finally score the 69 bucks for the download, I will burn it to cd myself. Because to spend 10 bucks for a cd, is the same as spending 150 for ASL journal 2 (which means you are stupid and need your head checked).

But hey, if I was Matrix Games, I would not have problems with charging whatever I wanted for my products either.
If I felt it was worth 69 bucks, that's what I would want.
And if I felt the burning of a cd that would require a few valuable manhours was worth 10 bucks, that is what I would expect of the buyer.

The fact that it would take me 20 minutes or less to do it myself is not relevant.

What is relevant, is the fact it can be done so easily in 20 minutes onto a 30 cent cd on a mundane commonly found cd burner, is why are you insisting on Matrix Games do it at all?

And asking for a pretty box, to go with your sale?
That is to whacked out to reply to coherently. Every one of my wargame boxes is sitting in my basement. I am not sure why I have kept them. It's not because they are valuable though.
Maybe I have a weird thing for pretty boxes.
I am hoping to get that cured

I hope Matrix wont loose too many customers over these prices, and I guess they have done their calulations on the matter. And despite my critism I trust them on that. 69$ may be the best price of course. Not bothering with a demo is their choise naturally. But im afraid that if all the response they always got was 'great stuff! You can charge me whatever' simply because you like a title or 2, then Mr $man in Matri$ might just do that. So hurrah for Fishfinder because his post will be good for all of us.

I am oldfashioned, I guess, but when I finally buy a game, it is like a gift for me [:)] I want a box to look good beside the PC, I want colorful manuals and a fancy CD. Sure, Ill get over it, and joint you guys in the future of shopping, but it is my prerogative to say I disagree [:D]

[Error in 0]

ORIGINAL: PeckingFury

Well just name a game that will last you the next 5 to ten years??

Just one [;)]? Civilization. System shock 2. Any decent chess game. Im sure a couple others as well...

Will WitP last 5 to 10 year? I dont know, because I really dont know for sure what kind oof game it is. Maybe it will last 5 hours. You see, the PRICE is not the reason a game lasts..[:D]

[Cmdrcain]

ORIGINAL: JallaTryne

Reality is that many has complained about the price and policy of some Matrix games. Reality is that they scould be able to criticise this whithout having to 'get over it'. How many of these people who want the game, but dont want to spend 79$ on it end up downloading it from the net for 0$? It took me 1 minute to find 2 Matrix titles on the net. It is even more tempting because you dont get less than you get from a Matrix DD (no manual or CD).

You say that often you have to pay extra for a game CD, and I disagree. In fact most potential new customers of WitP and games like it will disagree.

I guess many games comes without a demo. Its ok if I know what kind of game it is, and most of them are your standard FPS or something you know beforehand. Read a coule of reviews, and you get a good feel for the game. WitP is nothing like your standard DOOM clone, is it? I believe WitP is a complex game one might very well end up hating. A demo would maybe prove otherwise... I cannot see any real downside of providing a demo. The fact that some games don't have demos does not change this for me, as it does to you.

Of course there would be hacks

Pricing... look around, many mass marketed games come out at a $50-$60 price, this is not a Mass marketed game so it is going be
less marketed, its price is low in that sense.

Btw were Matrix titles found the FREE War in Russia and Pacific war?

restating: With Digital Downloads it is reasonable to charge a handling fee to also send a CD instead of a person simply downloading it and burning own so the $10 extra is a handling fee to do what you could do yourself with a cd burner.

For those without a CD burner its not an unreasonable fee, companys DO charge fees for updated CD's and for replacing CD's that go bad

[Cmdrcain]

ORIGINAL: JallaTryne

ORIGINAL: PeckingFury

Well just name a game that will last you the next 5 to ten years??

Just one [;)]? Civilization. System shock 2. Any decent chess game. Im sure a couple others as well...

Will WitP last 5 to 10 year? I dont know, because I really dont know for sure what kind oof game it is. Maybe it will last 5 hours. You see, the PRICE is not the reason a game lasts..[:D]

WITP is based on the DOS version of Pacific war which still is played despite it being a DOS game and old graphics... oh and in a sense the FREE Pacific War game is a sort of demo for their Windows remake...

Just the windows game has alot more to it but it is based on the old game..

So I'd say given how long the DOS versions been played that Yup, WITP will be played 5-15 years.

[fishfinder]

Well just name a game that will last you the next 5 to ten years??

Hell, the war didn't even last that long. Hard to imagine the appeal of a particular game lasting longer especially one being marketed to such a narrow audience (ie to those with the ego that requires driving a Hummer where a Honda could take you more efficiently and cost effectively...no wonder furure generations of games will feature Iraq)

[Error in 0]

The games were Korsun pocket and HTTR. Also 'Accros Dniepr' was online, but I counted it in Korsun. I own a copy of Korsun, and I have no need to download HTTR. But many out there would't think twice about it. Sure, hacks are here to stay, Im just pointing out that it is a factor to consider when deciding a price, and the higher the price, the easier it is to do this.