Air drops...bases only?

[RUPD3658]

I was trying to airdrop para units into a non base land hex behind an enemy base (Darwin). The goal was to cut off the retreat path.

I was unable to select this open hex as a destination for my troop transports.

Bug or just something in the manual I missed?

[Brady]

Ya I notced this as well, be nice if we could do this.

[Nikademus]

you can only drop on a base hex.

[freeboy]

fyi, my work around if you are trying to cut supply, say to Rangoon is to go ahead and drop these guys and when they retreat they can cut supplies.. as I see it,

Hey Nik, do out of Supply para still cut rr lines and roads in hexes they alone occupy????

[Alexander Seil]

Paratroops were mostly used to secure discrete objectives (bridges, airfields) in World War II, having them run amok would be just silly...you think you can just paradrop a brigade in the middle of nowhere, never resupply them and hope that they can requisition enough military grade equipment from the civilian populace to keep going indefinitely? [:D]

[freeboy]

They could last a few days or even longer with air drops, Maural's(sp) maraders did in this conflict, Burma I believe..
I use my Jap paras, to isolate Rangoon as I am attacking it along the coast, but I know they will disapear if not supplied... expendable troops, remember the Brits lost tons of paras in Europe in 44...

[DougCA]

Large para formations were only expected to hold on 1 to 3 days prior to linkup with ground forces. The "tons of paras" mentioned were lost because that didnt happen (i.e. Arnhem Holland) Merrill's maruaders were ground troops resupplied with some ammo and food by drops but again were not expected to hold a position they were raiders using hit and run tactics. Even then they burned out quick. Para ops in a game of this scale always tend to be more effective than they really were. Number one requirement for para operations was that you had undisputed air superiority. In this game I have actually dropped them on clark field (unescorted) with the americans still having some fighter strength there and managed to take the base on the first day of the drop. I hate having to have house rules but since i usually play the AI, i will come up with something in this case.

[freeboy]

Agreed regarding house rules, surprised regarding Clark Field though

Paras in this game are very week units, apart from forcing the enemy to garison bases, cutting supply lines... (in reality it doesn't take much to interdict a rail line) to bases soon to be attacked is my preferred use...

[Rainerle]

Hi, it would also be nice if H6K2-L Mavis could unload troops at unoccupied bases. I tried to take Tarawa that way on turn 1 but it's not possible.

[Maliki]

I like the fact that you can do the reverse though.Marching,the 7th Australian Div and 30th Bde,over the Buna trail i kept them in supply by air along their march.I noticed that that there was an option now available for the C-47's to pick up troops,and the only two units that were eligible were the 30th and 7th.i didn't try it though.Now mind you this isn't a complaint,but if you can air transport units from a non-base hex then why not to one as well?

[freeboy]

I would be surprised if it worked ... where would the planes land etc... but maybe this is a bug?

[Maliki]

ORIGINAL: freeboy

I would be surprised if it worked ... where would the planes land etc... but maybe this is a bug?

I would try,but both units have already reached base hexes,and it would take too long to march another unit into an unoccupied hex.

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: freeboy

Hey Nik, do out of Supply para still cut rr lines and roads in hexes they alone occupy????

Any enemy LCU blocking a supply/road hex will cut off the supply though if you are talking a paraunit, it will not auto retreat but will launch a shock attack first. Essentially you'll be destroying the unit if your trying to use it as a cork for the bottle.

[pad152]

I think air dropped units should be able to be dropped on non base hexes. This realy limits the usefullness of para units in the game.

[DrewMatrix]

I have been reading about air dropped suppies (as opposed to supplies offloaded from an aircraft at a base.

At most 20% of the ammo was usable. In some drops none was. Water cans would almost all burst open. Stuff gets lost in the jungle.

Sounds like it was basically "no useful amount of supplies".

This is from Bergereud "Land Touched by Fire"

[Hipper]

ORIGINAL: Beezle

I have been reading about air dropped suppies (as opposed to supplies offloaded from an aircraft at a base.

At most 20% of the ammo was usable. In some drops none was. Water cans would almost all burst open. Stuff gets lost in the jungle.

Sounds like it was basically "no useful amount of supplies".

This is from Bergereud "Land Touched by Fire"

Funny in Burma from 43 onwards multiple brigades were supplyied by airdrop, solutions to dropping everything was found.... if too much got lost just pup a keg of rum in every 10th bundle !

Try Slim Defeat into Victory, or Masters The road past Mandalay

Cheers

[Nikademus]

by late war, the Allies had solved through experience and ingenuity, much of the problems that plauged the early attempts to use air-based supply sources as a sole or major means of support. Burma actually saw this tactic employed offensively as well as defensively and it was instrumental in thwarting the usual Japanese tactic of flanking attacks to cut the supply and communication lines of intruding Allied columns as they penetrated deeper into the Burmese jungle. Early/midwar however was a different story and much of the supply drops attempted often met with failure or at best limited success.

I've always been personally very wary of supply by air routines in these games because the abstract nature of the supply "points" tends to over-magnify the effectiveness of the tactic. Still remember the War in Russia, "small roving panzer corp" tactic that caused so much controversy on that forum board.

[Charles2222]

Given the option to both airdrop supplies or ship them, which is more efficient supply-wise? Of course the airdrop may be more hurdle free, but do each method safely land the same amount and which method costs more for delivery system itself (of course air is quicker)?

[Nikademus]

on a one for one basis....nothing beats shipping. However if you say, stack 7 full strength C47 squadrons at one base hex and put them on supply transport, you can easily keep a small base or LCU in supply indefinately even in the middle of the jungle. I've seen this tactic used in UV. Pry did something similar to me in early 1942 during an early PBEM playtest. A brilliant move to be sure....but i was left wondering just how well all those transport planes could have sustained an offensive drive deep into the jungle so well during such an early period of the war.

An idea that came to me last nite would be for a modifyer based on the current year that greatly reduces the actual # of supply points delivered to the unit. Sort of similar to "spoilage". This would only apply when dropping at a hex that doesn't have a runway (airbase size 1+)

example: 1942 (total supply x ..20 = actual delivered supply points)
1943 (total supply x.40 = actual delivered supply points)
1944 (total supply x .75 = actual delivered supply points)

[tsimmonds]

However if you say, stack 7 full strength C47 squadrons at one base hex and put them on supply transport, you can easily keep a small base or LCU in supply indefinately even in the middle of the jungle.

You can up the ante there with some nice LRCAP on the destination hex....