Starvation impossible

[bradfordkay]

I'm wondering about those 60 squads (or so) in each division that are disabled. Can you say Donner Party?

[AmiralLaurent]

I think you see the same problem as in UV. Each turn, each unit is tested for disruption by lack of supplies/fatigue/malaria/lack of support and whatever and a number of squads are disabled but this number is unaffected by the size of the unit.

As far as I know, the test is done for each type of squad, so if an unit as 300 INF squads and 12 75mm guns, all guns are probably disabled/lost when 20-30 INF squads are disabled. At least it worked this way in UV. Or so it seems to me.

So a SNLF will die of hunger much faster than a full division if cut of supplies.

[The Dude]

In my playing the game i abandoned alot of units and eventually they starved and left the map. The supply seems to work all right to me

[mongo]

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

I'm wondering about those 60 squads (or so) in each division that are disabled. Can you say Donner Party?

Well, there is something to that. I've read several accounts from a lot of different campaigns that made reference to possible cannibalism by the IJA troops

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

in all seriousness. This does sound a little unusual. I'll try running a couple tests this week and see what i get. I did a similar test many months ago only with a small IJN SNLF unit unsupplied at Lunga. After a month it was in pretty bad shape was was losing men and equip as well as suffering disablement

Thanks for this in advance!


Leo "Apollo11"

[ZOOMIE1980]

ORIGINAL: MadDawg

ORIGINAL: von Murrin

Seriously. Bomb the crap out of them for a couple turns. It's like putting a torp into an IJN BB with 35% sys damage. She may not sink right away, but she'll eventually roll over.[:D]

True, but thats not really the point here. It sounds like thereis something odd with the modelling of out of supply units.

Ive had a similar situation on an atoll where US forces have been for about 6 weeks now with no supply yet have fought off two attacks without a problem by a force of equal size.

Even in a game as old as North Atlantic '86 Gary had out of supply forces lose 1% a turn every turn they were out of supply.....

[ZOOMIE1980]

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent

I think you see the same problem as in UV. Each turn, each unit is tested for disruption by lack of supplies/fatigue/malaria/lack of support and whatever and a number of squads are disabled but this number is unaffected by the size of the unit.

As far as I know, the test is done for each type of squad, so if an unit as 300 INF squads and 12 75mm guns, all guns are probably disabled/lost when 20-30 INF squads are disabled. At least it worked this way in UV. Or so it seems to me.

So a SNLF will die of hunger much faster than a full division if cut of supplies.

I think the point is they shouldn't just be disabled but should completely disappear after a time.

[Xargun]

IN my former PBeM game I left 2 squads and a mortar unsupply on an island - used a sub to insert them and enough of them got damaged on the landing that they couldn't attack to capture the base, and I left them there. The turn after landing they were all disabled and within two turns they had left the map. So it may go faster for smaller units when compared to larger ones.. but shouldn't it be the other way around ? I mean, 30 men could probably scavage enough found on a tropical island to stay alive.. but 20,000 men ? I don't think so..

Xargun

[Mr.Frag]

I think the point is they shouldn't just be disabled but should completely disappear after a time.

The order is normal -> disabled -> destroyed

As the disabled portion increases, the detroyed part comes into play.

As to what was noted here, I'm a little puzzled too ... I've never seen a unit without supplies live to tell about it for long. Size of the unit just means it takes longer, but the end effect is the same, no unit.

[gdpsnake]

My Dutch units died just fine and right quick when the Japanese took Java and Sumatra and Borneo.....

The Indians and Brits croaked well, curled up and died too.

My Philipinos were toast too....

Supply or the lack thereof seems to work fine

[moses]

I ran the test out till Aug and the results are still holding. 4th Div has 73 disabled and 374 ready infantry. 56th Division is at 67/380. Niether unit has had a single infantry squad die after 7 full months at zero supply.

My working theory at this point is that supply acts mainly to repair disabled troops. Under "normal" conditions (i.e. inadequate support in a malarial zone) squads become disabled on a regular basis. Take away supply and repair no longer occurs so they quickly wither away. In the case I tested (a heavily supported unit in a temperate zone) perhaps it is very infrequent that a squad becomes disable and so no repair is needed.

To test this I'll try the same test except I won't bring in the HQ unit. If my working theory is correct the unit should wither away fairly quickly.

[moses]

By the way the small 7th NLF unit that starts at Bonin is long gone.

[Nikademus]

makes sense....the area i tested was a malarial zone as well.

[ZOOMIE1980]

ORIGINAL: gdpsnake

My Dutch units died just fine and right quick when the Japanese took Java and Sumatra and Borneo.....

The Indians and Brits croaked well, curled up and died too.

My Philipinos were toast too....

Supply or the lack thereof seems to work fine

I will see how this works in my game. I restarted a few days ago using Lemur's scenario. Japs took Khota Bharu and Kuantan on the same day. One infantry Bde retreated south of Khota Bharu to the shore hex between there and Kuantan. Japs pursued with a Bde unit of their own. Attacked again and then the unit retreated into the one land locked mtn hex. Japs then moved down the left coast and ended up 100% isolating that unit in the mountains. Japs so far are not interested in pursing that unit into the mountains. We'll see how long it lasts.....

[doktor1957]

Hmm, this makes me wonder. In my current game against the AI I'm fighting a rear-guard action at Tavoy, trying to buy time to build up Rangoon for the inevitable seige. Two brigades of British troops have stymied the 55th IJA division for over a week. I'll bet that his troops are low on supply/fatigued/stricken with malaria. Time to counter-attack?

[tsimmonds]

Whatever the 55th's problem is, it is probably not out of supply. There should still be plenty of supply in Saigon and Camranh Bay, and probably in Bangkok as well. They may just be waiting for some friends to arrive[;)]

[moses]

I've run my test out to 25 Dec 1942. Units have been out of supply for a full year. 4th Division has 117 disabled squads and 330 ready squads. 56th Division is at 67/380. After one year with no supply not a single infantry squad has died. All low density equipment is however long gone. Nothing is left but inf squads, support, and the 81 mm morters.

[tacticon]

***** Possible Bug Warning *****


I wanted to see what the effects were on a unit transported to a temperate, non-malarial, major port hex like Pearl Harbor fully supplied for three days from Friday night to Sunday night in late 1942. Test was conducted by editing First Marine division’s location (which had been heavily engage in combat for one month on Guadalcanal) to Honolulu. The division was paid back pay, allowed to shower and given fresh uniforms. The Division was told that they would be edited back into combat back on the Canal on Monday morning.

Of the 240 non-damaged squads available, 240 REMAINED COMPLETELY UNDAMAGED by the end of the weekend! The game engine is completely broken and totally favors the allies. These results could never happen historically (assuming Roosevelt had an editor).

What should have happened is:
91 Squads get drunk and were returned to the unit by Shore Patrol totally hung over.
45 Squads get drunk and were arrested by Shore Patrol.
22 Squads get drunk and start a fight with some Army Squads.
11 Squads get drunk and catch VD from some support squads on Hotel Street.
6 Squads get drunk and get robbed by some support squads on Hotel Street.
3 Squads get drunk and get married to some support squads on Hotel Street.

A total of 178 squads should have been rendered combat ineffective by Monday morning. I what to know if this issue will be addressed in future patches.

[tsimmonds]

ORIGINAL: tacticon

***** Possible Bug Warning *****


I wanted to see what the effects were on a unit transported to a temperate, non-malarial, major port hex like Pearl Harbor fully supplied for three days from Friday night to Sunday night in late 1942. Test was conducted by editing First Marine division’s location (which had been heavily engage in combat for one month on Guadalcanal) to Honolulu. The division was paid back pay, allowed to shower and given fresh uniforms. The Division was told that they would be edited back into combat back on the Canal on Monday morning.

Of the 240 non-damaged squads available, 240 REMAINED COMPLETELY UNDAMAGED by the end of the weekend! The game engine is completely broken and totally favors the allies. These results could never happen historically (assuming Roosevelt had an editor).

What should have happened is:
91 Squads get drunk and were returned to the unit by Shore Patrol totally hung over.
45 Squads get drunk and were arrested by Shore Patrol.
22 Squads get drunk and start a fight with some Army Squads.
11 Squads get drunk and catch VD from some support squads on Hotel Street.
6 Squads get drunk and get robbed by some support squads on Hotel Street.
3 Squads get drunk and get married to some support squads on Hotel Street.

A total of 178 squads should have been rendered combat ineffective by Monday morning. I what to know if this issue will be addressed in future patches.

Brilliant! A few more of these and I am a tacticon fanboy.....

[moses]

Obviously you've never dealt with Marines. The occasional binge is actually required in order to maintain full effectivness. Now should you remove them from their supply source for over a year then you would have problems.[;)]