Hello all:
Here is a situation I have seen a few times in UV. I'm playing Scen 17 and have had a lot of luck early on. CV Shokaku and Zuikaku were sunk May 7-9, 1942 while I lost the Lexington. The Yorktown is 100% again. I'm playing the AI at the historical level. I've included information on TFs and AC on the picture below. Furthermore, I believe the two BBs reported in TF #2 are really IJN CVs as well as the BB in TF #1. I'm curious to see what others would do when confronted with this situation.
[&o]
You didn't mention what the date of this turn was. If it is in early June for example, I doubt the IJN could field another CV. A couple weeks later however might make a large difference.
In general I think you're in an excellent position. You've emasculated the Jap mobile air force, and even more importantly you have deployed powerful air units on the Canal.
In this situation, a human player would probably make the capture of Lunga his highest priority, if for no other reason than to destroy whatever ground and air units you have stationed there. The AI will doubtless have a more desultory reaction. Depending on its strength, the Japanese presence at Tassafaronga should be the immediate focus of your attention, either by air bombardment or surface attack, or both.
With the forces you've got, you may well profit from running bombardment TFs into the Shortlands to shoot up whatever is arriving there. But beware the CD units! Creating TFs with CAs and BBs only is the way to go. Destroyers and light cruisers will take multiple hits. Your carriers can then move into the Solomon Sea to clean out any cripples left by your offensive. In this case, be sure to devote enough CV fighters to CAP (50-60%) and the Jap LBA will not bother you.
An alternate move is to invade the Shortlands themselves. Early in the game the Japanese garrison is not strong and can be overwhelmed by an aggressive move. The first time this was tried against me in an email game I about crapped my pants. [:@] (It will not happen again.)
Shortlands is a hard hit for the allies though...in the big scenario, I cut their supply lines and that puts them out of the picture. If you have the Lunga base at a size 4, put some B-17s there and shut Shortlands down.
There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion.
Just to answer some questions. My carriers have not been damaged at all. They carry a full complement of aircraft. All the TFs have just arrived on the seen. My TFs from Noumea and I'm sure the IJN TFs from Truk. I would say both forces are 100% effective. The date is 8/4/42 (really early in the game). I have B-17 stationed at Gili Gili
two squadrons one size 8 the other 12. As for the AC on my carriers, all F4F-4 are set for 80% CAP at an altitude of 10000 ft, the dive bombers SBD Dauntless Navel Attack and 10% Naval Search at an altitude of 15000 ft., and the TBF Avengers are set for Naval Attack at 0% search altitude 100 ft. Average experience for all the carrier AC is about 78% while fatigue is 5% for dive bombers and torp bombers and about 15% for the fighters. The TBD Devastator located at Lunga was moved from the Enterprise. I sometimes move AC with limited range to land bases so they can participate in attacks. At present the airbase in Lunga is size 3 which limits me to single engine aircraft there or fly 4-Engine planes with penalties.
I would put my CVs north of Lunga, (retire/donnot react)but in A/C transfer range so you don't lose all the aircraft, and try to give te IJN CAVs a bloody nose. Send 'em cryin' home to mama...lol
I put my fighters at 40%, 50% CAP Maximum.
What is the date?
When are the next USN CVs expected?
There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion.
Shortlands is a hard point to be sure. But it is hardly invulnerable. As you've said, an Allied player needs to reduce the base through air, bombardment and amphiphibious attack - in the proper sequence. Against the AI there is scant assault value at the base (and this value is all that fundamentally counts). However against a more thoughtful defense, Lunga needs to be built up to a level 4 airfield with abundant support. Plentiful CV resources will almost always tip the balance.
Keeping the Jap airforce grounded at Shortlands is the first step. Allied airstrikes then need to pound the base into craters for more than a few turns.
As you indicated USN surface units are generally not sufficient until the second half of 1942. Therefore bombing needs to fill in the gap. If the AI has permitted a major build-up at Lunga, this approach is entirely feasible.
However, breathing opponents will almost certainly not allow this situation to develop at all.
Wow this is great. Thanks everyone.
I haven't played this turn yet. The date is Aug. 4, 1942 for those who asked. My carriers are set at Patrol/Do Not Retire and Do not React to the Enemy (at the moment). Earlier recon July 26, 1942 stated that Shortlands had Troops approx 7500, guns approx 216 and 0 vehicles while the troops landed at Tassafaronga numbered 1600 approx with 10 guns and 0 vehicles (Light Red INF symbol so I beleive the recon). I have not considered invading Shortlands. CV Essex has an ETA at Pearl in 175 days. All other CVs have ETAs at Pearl of at least 1 year. I will recieve two BBs in about 25 days. I guess the real question is do you commit (this early in the game) to a an all out carrier battle? According to rogueusmc the answer is yes. However, Blitzer's comments suggest to hold off on an all out attack. Shut down Shortlands through air superiority first since the AI let me build up Lunga. (If I understood correctly)[8|]
Make sure you have 'do not react' set or your carriers will move toward the enemy carriers and leave the safety of the CAP at Lunga. Stay within 3 hexes of Lunga.
There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion.
One other small piece of advice to counter a nasty game characteristic. Even when you have an air combat TF set to "do not react," it will often react one hex toward enemy carriers (apparently to "close the range" as was done by commanders historically). You frequently get a carrier TF isolated from the rest of your forces, and it usually gets hammered.
What I do is order my carrier TFs to follow a surface combat TF, so that they can be like one big, happy family and go everywhere together under the protection of machines - I mean CAP - of loving grace. An additional benefit is that sometimes enemy airstrikes will hit your surface TF and leave your carriers alone.
Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.
The torpedo bombers have the short legs...that's why my 2 hex rule. your carriers move one hex towards enemy, your planes can still make 'feet dry'.
Set your carriers two hexes SE of the island...let them come to you. If they do, they have to fly through the Lunga CAP. Detail 50% of your base CAP to cover the cariers. The flattops are what he will go after. Leave the other 50% to cover the base as insurance.
There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion.
Thank you all for your advice[;)]. I placed the Surface Combat TF in the lead and allowed the allied CVs to follow. I set CV CAP to 40% (never did this before and was biting my nails through the whole experience) and moved everyone 2 hexes SE of Lunga. All I can say is, it was glorious.
Two Day Summary (if reports are correct)
IJN
CV Soryu 11 bomb hits (I would guess heavily damaged)
CV Akagi 3 bomb hits
CV Hiryu 11 bomb hits (Also heavily damaged now)
CV Junyo 1 bomb hit
CVL Zuiho 13 bomb and 1 Torp hit and is SUNK.
BB Haruna 3 bomb hits (added bonus)
US damage Sys Flt Fires
CV Hornet 6 bombs and 1 Torp hit 25 18 7
CV Saratoga 3 bomb hits 5 0 0
CV Yorktown 6 bombs 3 torp hits 73 35 15 (limping home)
CV Wasp 2 bombs and 4 torp hits 32 74 16 (limping home)
DV Enterprise 1 bomb hit 5 0 0
Now I will move the fighters and dive bombers back for repair and continue to build up Lunga. When I do go on the offensive I now have the options of capturing Lea or Shortlands first. Thanks again everyone.
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 08/04/42
Weather: Partly Cloudy
Sub attack near Lunga at 38,40
Japanese Ships
BB Kirishima
Allied Ships
SS Tautog
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on Rabaul , at 21,28
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 4
Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 13
Japanese aircraft losses
no losses
Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress x 2 damaged
Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 5
Attacking Level Bombers:
3 x B-17E Fortress at 15000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 15000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 15000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Lunga, at 38,40
Allied aircraft
Allied aircraft losses
P-400 Airacobra x 2 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 35,38
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 52
A6M3 Zero x 23
Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 22
SBD Dauntless x 34
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 3 destroyed
A6M2 Zero x 1 damaged
A6M3 Zero x 1 destroyed
A6M3 Zero x 1 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat x 3 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat x 1 damaged
SBD Dauntless x 22 destroyed
SBD Dauntless x 10 damaged
PO1 F.Kojima of BII-1 Daitai is credited with kill number 6
Japanese Ships
CV Soryu, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Yayoi, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CV Akagi, Bomb hits 2, on fire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 35,38
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 15
A6M3 Zero x 12
Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 20
SBD Dauntless x 34
TBF Avenger x 15
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 1 destroyed
Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat x 2 destroyed
SBD Dauntless x 2 destroyed
SBD Dauntless x 16 damaged
TBF Avenger x 15 damaged
PO2 J.Doigawa of DII-1 Daitai is credited with kill number 2
Japanese Ships
CV Hiryu, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CA Chikuma, Shell hits 4, Bomb hits 1
CL Abukuma, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CV Akagi, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CV Soryu, Bomb hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
CA Tone, Shell hits 4
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 35,38
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 7
A6M3 Zero x 9
Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 22
SBD Dauntless x 34
TBF Avenger x 15
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 1 destroyed
Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat x 2 destroyed
SBD Dauntless x 1 destroyed
SBD Dauntless x 8 damaged
TBF Avenger x 1 destroyed
TBF Avenger x 14 damaged
PO1 F.Kojima of BII-1 Daitai is credited with kill number 7
Japanese Ships
CA Chikuma
CL Abukuma, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CV Hiryu, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CV Soryu, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 35,38
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 6
A6M3 Zero x 6
Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 10
SBD Dauntless x 34
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 1 destroyed
Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless x 1 destroyed
SBD Dauntless x 12 damaged
LTJG G. Hill of VF-8 is credited with kill number 2
Japanese Ships
CV Soryu, on fire, heavy damage
CV Hiryu, Bomb hits 7, on fire, heavy damage
CV Akagi, on fire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 35,38
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 12
A6M3 Zero x 12
Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 16
SBD Dauntless x 30
TBF Avenger x 10
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 1 destroyed
A6M3 Zero x 1 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat x 5 destroyed
SBD Dauntless x 2 destroyed
SBD Dauntless x 20 damaged
TBF Avenger x 3 destroyed
TBF Avenger x 4 damaged
PO2 J.Doigawa of DII-1 Daitai is credited with kill number 3
Japanese Ships
CV Junyo, Bomb hits 1
CVL Ryujo
CVL Zuiho, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
DD Shiokaze, Shell hits 4
DD Uzuki
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 39,42
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 27
A6M3 Zero x 3
D3A Val x 41
B5N Kate x 32
Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 64
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 6 destroyed
D3A Val x 10 destroyed
D3A Val x 30 damaged
B5N Kate x 13 destroyed
B5N Kate x 17 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat x 1 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat x 7 damaged
LTJG D. Freeman of VF-8 is credited with kill number 5
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 39,42
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 11
D3A Val x 43
B5N Kate x 31
Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 20
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 4 destroyed
D3A Val x 2 destroyed
D3A Val x 17 damaged
B5N Kate x 10 destroyed
B5N Kate x 12 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat x 1 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat x 1 damaged
LT W. Ford of VF-8 is credited with kill number 7
LCDR C. Shands of VF-71 bails out and is RESCUED
Allied Ships
CV Saratoga, Bomb hits 2
CV Yorktown, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CV Hornet, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 39,42
Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 11
B5N Kate x 25
Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 40
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3 Zero x 1 destroyed
B5N Kate x 10 destroyed
B5N Kate x 9 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat x 5 destroyed
LT R. Mehle of VF-6 is credited with kill number 4
LT W. Ford of VF-8 is KILLED
Allied Ships
CL Phoenix
CV Wasp, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CV Enterprise
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 35,38
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18
A6M3 Zero x 10
Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 7
SBD Dauntless x 16
TBF Avenger x 5
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3 Zero x 1 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat x 2 destroyed
SBD Dauntless x 13 damaged
TBF Avenger x 1 destroyed
TBF Avenger x 4 damaged
LTJG J.Nagano of AI-1 Daitai is credited with kill number 2
LCDR H.Adams of VT-7 is KILLED
Japanese Ships
CA Nachi, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CS Nisshin, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB Hiei
DD Hagikaze, Bomb hits 1, on fire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 35,38
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 9
A6M3 Zero x 10
Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 40
SBD Dauntless x 17
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3 Zero x 1 destroyed
Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat x 3 destroyed
SBD Dauntless x 2 destroyed
SBD Dauntless x 7 damaged
PO2 J.Doigawa of DII-1 Daitai is credited with kill number 4
Japanese Ships
CV Akagi, on fire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 35,38
Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 9
Allied aircraft
SBD Dauntless x 19
no losses
Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless x 3 destroyed
SBD Dauntless x 9 damaged
LCDR W. Rodee of VS-8 bails out and is CAPTURED
Japanese Ships
CVL Ryujo
CV Junyo
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 39,42
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 23
A6M3 Zero x 6
D3A Val x 18
B5N Kate x 13
Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 36
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 3 destroyed
A6M3 Zero x 1 destroyed
D3A Val x 6 destroyed
D3A Val x 11 damaged
B5N Kate x 7 destroyed
B5N Kate x 7 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat x 7 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat x 1 damaged
LTJG R. Hoel of VF-8 is credited with kill number 4
LCDR T.Hirata of BII-3 Daitai is KILLED
Allied Ships
CV Wasp, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CV Enterprise, Bomb hits 1
CL St. Louis, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 08/05/42
Weather: Overcast
Air attack on TF at 34,33
Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 9
SBD Dauntless x 3
P-400 Airacobra x 3
Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless x 1 damaged
Japanese Ships
DD Shiranui, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB Haruna
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 34,33
Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 18
SBD Dauntless x 21
Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless x 1 destroyed
SBD Dauntless x 5 damaged
Japanese Ships
BB Hiei
CA Takao, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB Haruna, Bomb hits 2, on fire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Rabaul at 21,28
Japanese aircraft
A6M2-N Rufe x 1
A6M2 Zero x 60
A6M3 Zero x 8
Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 12
no losses
Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress x 9 damaged
Japanese Ships
CS Chiyoda
APD 36
Attacking Level Bombers:
4 x B-17E Fortress at 1000 feet
2 x B-17E Fortress at 1000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 34,36
Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 21
SBD Dauntless x 18
TBF Avenger x 3
P-400 Airacobra x 3
Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless x 2 damaged
TBF Avenger x 2 damaged
Japanese Ships
CVL Zuiho, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on Lunga , at 38,40
Attacking Level Bombers:
13 x G4M1 Betty at 7000 feet
3 x G4M1 Betty at 7000 feet
9 x G4M1 Betty at 7000 feet
12 x G4M1 Betty at 7000 feet
3 x G4M1 Betty at 7000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 34,33
Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 39
SBD Dauntless x 35
TBF Avenger x 3
P-400 Airacobra x 7
Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless x 3 damaged
Japanese Ships
CA Chokai, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB Haruna, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CA Nachi, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Asagumo
CA Takao, on fire
CL Sendai
BB Hiei
DD Urakaze
DD Tokitsukaze
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Rabaul at 21,28
Japanese aircraft
A6M2-N Rufe x 1
A6M2 Zero x 58
A6M3 Zero x 6
Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 11
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 3 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress x 11 damaged
Japanese Ships
CS Chiyoda
Attacking Level Bombers:
4 x B-17E Fortress at 1000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 1000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress at 1000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Meteiai at 17,24
Allied aircraft
B-25D Mitchell x 3
no losses
Japanese Ships
AP Shoan Maru
Attacking Level Bombers:
3 x B-25D Mitchell at 6000 feet
The essence of military genius is to bring under
consideration all of the tendencies of the mind
and soul in combination towards the business of
war..... Karl von Clausewitz
If ya want practice on this, the Coral Sea scenario is pretty much the same situation. It's a 10 day scenario, so you can play it a couple of times easily. You don't have 5 CVs though.
There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion.
