Cheaper at EB, how?

[ravinhood]

I'll tell yah who ruined all you guys, Richard Gariot and all those fancy cars he bought after the Ultima Series, I saw picture after picture in magazines and him wearing that stupid crown. It left an impression on me ALL you guys were getting rich and really that's not a big issue as much as he flaunted it in our faces. Heh

Believe me I knew through Dave Landrey you guys weren't getting rich, I'm merely debating issues of our side of the fence while you are defending yours. SSI made the greatest wargames ever, I bought nearly all of them (wasn't into plane wars though so I didn't buy them after Fighter Command). Matrix has some interesting titles, but, for some reason I'm just not drawn to them like I was the SSI titles.

I'm going to buy "Combat Leader" and "Worlds at War" and "Battles in Normandy" and "Tin Soldiers" and "World in Flames" if you guys ever get off your laurels and release them. But, yah better not price them at $70 + $10 for a cd ! LOL

You guys also need to make some new improved Civil War Games, where's all your Civil War games? You gonna let HPS get all your Civil War sales? heh And of course also a good Ancients including Rome and the Persian invasions will be welcome as well. And some good land based pacific games, instead of War in the Pacific, give us some good tactical Pacific war battles. Who did "Typhoon of Steel" btw? Was that Grigsby? That was a good 80's pacific tactical battle wargame of the 80's.

I'll also have to resort to buying the CD version in all of them because downloading on dailup is rediculously slow, back in the day when you made great 2mb - 5mb games downloading with dialup today wouldn't be a problem, but, 18hours to download War in the Pacific? hahaha no thank you.

[quote] So you think we sound like "suits" these days? LOL, name me one company where the CEO and developers post constantly on the forums and interact with their customers. [unquote]

Siltherine, Iain McNeal.

[old man of the sea]

Hey! Richard Gariot is not that bad a guy, really! He made a lot of money and didn't piss it away like so many other developers. That is the only difference between him and most other people that have been around for 20 years.

E

[Cmdrcain]

Since I keep original boxes and have stacks of them on top of my bookcases I pulled out the Pacific war game (btw it on box said 100 hours of game play [:D])

Sticker still on it is $69.95

This is Original 1.2 Floppy with Paper manuel, Circa early 90's I think, s go figure for inflation and PLEASE do NOT use the silly govt inflation figures, they base those on price raises without any adjustments for hidden inflation ....Like breyers Icecreams still in some stores at $4.95-5.95 but it used be that price when it was 2 Full Quarts (half gallon) then it dropped to 1.87 Qts and is NOW 1.75 Qts as far as the Govt cares, breyers has not increased one cent in price so Zero inflation... alot of other products have downsized while keeping old prices resulting in skewed zero inflation.... I usually add 2-3 pct on any Govt figure for a more realistic inflation figure...

So..... The price of DD alone is cheaper then the original Pacific war sold at, cause 2004 Dollars are worth lots less then 1990's dollars..

Even the DD plus CD at $80 is less then the value the $70 in 90's dollars would be.



To another poster, yeah I recall empire and Empire Deluxe, Empire was one of the original unix games played back in the early ages, was ported to early computer versions and a fun game, still is if can get it to run on todays modern computers, its the graphics cards that may prevent running on some setups..

Hummm

Retail... Back when I ran a Serv station we basically bought what we sold, no returns through when we added Stewart Sandwichs we did return old stock for a credit, I would say that in early days of retail, I'd guess stores paid for some if not all stock they shelved where it was a non-chain store, it is the Chains I think hat probably put those consignment ways and play hardball with game makers, If a store basically buys what stock they get then the price can be below list if they discount items to move them and at least recover their costs.

Personally, I think, unless laws proposed mess up it, that the large selection retail boxed software way is on the way out, even Chains might sell Digital after all you can now on internet shop Walmart etc and order online, it isn't that big a jump to where you may order software and digital download it, possiable with the link linking to the
developer/seller and walmart etc getting a commission on the sale.

If so there might be a day that Matrix's titles might be listed
in an online walmart, link going to DR for the DD and Matrix paying
Walmart a pct of sale as a commission hummm?

I think Technologys changing the way we buy things now.

Certain things still will be sold in an physical location , due to
need to see it etc like Beds, furniture etc, but for the softer stuff especially digital things it might turn to mainly via internet, with options to mail to you (at a charge) if don't wish to just download.

You know, this PC I put together, I'm using, I bought via internet all the parts and put it together.... except for the HD which was a 100 gig on sale in a store for $49.99 (after Rebates)

[ravinhood]

Oh I definitely agree that in the "far" future most everything will be internet buyable/downloadable. But, this is the present right now, so I still prefer holding the package in my hand, feeling the "must buy it" feeling steadily build up inside of me and then fighting it off and placing it back on the shelf until it get's cheaper. hehe (not just software here either, I use this buying technique in a lot of my purchases today). Especially milk have you seen the price for a gallon of milk these days??? $4 flippin dollars., heck I can drink a gallon of gasoline cheaper than that! LOL Why is it that the things we need are getting more expensive, and niceities are getting less expensive?? Wasn't it suppose to be the other way around??? I remember when a 486sx25 was over $1300 and now I can build a P4 2.4+ with 512mb ddr 3200pc ram, for a little over $300, yet a flipping graphics card to run many of these bloomin games is $400!! lol Technology prices are crazy.

There's hardly anywhere close to 50% of the American population on the internet atm. Of course these figures grow daily, but, there's still a long road to go before it becomes a pratical norm like the telephone or the tv. Perhaps in another 25 years, but, heh, I should be dead and gone by then. lol Then I don't care what they do with it.

[Marc von Martial]

ORIGINAL: Cmdrcain

I think Technologys changing the way we buy things now.

For me it has allready, bigtime. I´m doing about 80% of my purchases on the internet.

[Hexed Gamer]

The world getting smaller is a myth.

I used to get a lift now and then from local friends and/or family to nearby towns rather readily.

Family and most of those friends have over recent couple of years all moved out of range.

For me the world has actually gotten bigger since 2000.

I like retail for all the obvious impulse buyer reasons. But, I am not at all sad that the internet has expanded my buying options.

Sure the feel of a game box in my hands is "reassuring", but when I thin about it, it's just a box with some pretty pictures on it. Not one bit better than a decent web page with screen shots.

I don't have a credit card, that is likely my own problem though. Not having electronic cash "handy" is a burden. Gets in the way of "impulse purchases". Maybe that is a good thing (even if I dont wish to admit it every time). It means I have to fully decide I want the item, then send a money order to get it.
So what, it adds a few days onto the purchase to receiving the article.

Digital download means the time lost is only one way. Can't think of any reason that is a bad thing to me personally.

People will be without high speed connections likely for as long as they are without cell phones and credit cards.

I don't own a cell phone or a credit card. They are not I mportant in my life. Broadband is though.

I could live in a major city, within public transit range of several dozen decent retail stores selling the things I want.
I don't like cities though.

All choice made knowing the effects it would have on me.

Choices, it's all about choices.

If Matrix Games can put a couple of potentially fast moving titles on retail shelf sure go for it.
But, I think if Matrix Games is going to go digital download at all, it should make sure each and every title is open to digital download, regardless if the item is able to go retail shelf.

I am making the shift to doing my buying online as much as possible. Even though I spent a lifetime preferring retail shelf.

I have no objection to having the convenience made more or less convenient

[ravinhood]

I myself have to look at "cost vs advantage", a broadband connection is $30 a month which equates to $360 a year, dialup is $9.95 a month which equates to a little less than $120 a year, do the math $360 minus $120 leaves $240 for buying games or other products I can consume or use, I think I prefer dialup much better in the long term than the niceity of it in the short term. Broadbands only advantage for me would be faster downloads of "PATCHES" (or games from Matrix ), is that worth the extra $240 a year, when the closest software outlet is only 3 miles away (I can ride a bike that far without cost except for time)? In fact all of them are all within 3 miles of my house and hardly a block to a block an a half apart, cept for Walmarts which I rarely use for buying software anyways.

What I see broadband being an advantage to besides the businesses is that it creates a higher population of piracy, when everyone had to use dialup, you wouldn't read about X amount of downloads of a popular game on prominent websites Nowadays it's almost a common norm. Broadband just turned that $240 extra dollars a year into free games for some, an 18hr download (dialup) (using WitP as an example) vs a 52 minute download (cable/dsl) becomes more inticing for some, obviously for probably more than expected by the software association. In a way though, heh, they are still paying for those games they pirate abstractly, they are paying more for broadband to get them free.

Maybe the software association could get some royalties from the internet connection services, since it's really them that are giving the pirates the means to do what they do, along with Bill Gates who creates the OS that allows them to do what they do, and computer manufacturers who build computers that allow them to do what they do. heh Absurd I know, but, factual, yes.

When you look at the picture as a whole, if you are like me and the computer is merely an entertainment device or patching device or ordering device, one really pays a premium all the way around for that entertainment, patching and ordering. Though I can now build my own computers at great savings, there was a time when $1500 for a computer, and then broadbands costs for on the average of 2 years before one needed to upgrade, made the cost of entertainment quite expensive. Within the last 9 years I have been able to drive that cost down to bare minimums, which is good, saves me loads of cash and I can put that into something else to my "advantage". Of course I now do not stay up with top-end systems, I have learned that it's not worth the cost for the advantages given. The entertainment I play barely requires a 1ghz system nowadays if that, the majority I would say would require a 500mhz or less.

Now, that I have the hardware and internet connection issues at the bare minimums, I must work on the software publishers pricing policies. Ohhhhh Matrix....WitP is too expensive. hehe

[Hexed Gamer]

Can't fault your numbers there Ravinhood

True, if I was just using broadband for wargaming purposes, it would not be worth the cash. My broadband allows my phone undisturbed access while I am online, but when I consider the actual amount of times it would matter, it is unlikely a hassle.

My broadband ain't free to be sure. It costs me 45 bucks a month.

But in my case, I like anime and that means downloading anime episodes that simply don't even exist on the market as licensed dvds for 3-5 years after initial televising (I prefer actual dvds though).

I think if I didn't have the anime hobby, dsl would not be worth the cash.
Several days to download something like Steel Panthers or a digital download would not be a major bummer to me if it was a once a season at most incident.

The speed at which a web page loads certainly is not the reason I went to broadband.

[dinsdale]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
Maybe the software association could get some royalties from the internet connection services, since it's really them that are giving the pirates the means to do what they do, along with Bill Gates who creates the OS that allows them to do what they do, and computer manufacturers who build computers that allow them to do what they do. heh Absurd I know, but, factual, yes.

Maybe the banking association could get some royalties from the small-arms industry, since it's really them that are giving the bank robbers the means to do what they do, along with Fords, which creates the cars which allow them to do what they do, and Nike, who build sneakers that allow them to do what they do. heh Asurd I know, but, factual, yes. [;)]

Couldn't resist. I think society already creates such a sense of entitlement that I'm sure you're opinion is quite widely held. Software publishers are not entitled to compensation from other industries, and if you think my Mom should be paying broadband surcharges to subsidise games she has no idea exist then maybe I demand someone some help on my car payments because thefts force up the price of insurance.

There appears to be a broad idea that PC games are in danger from piracy, if that were true then I'm sure the industry would find a way to protect itself like every other industry does. From reading one of your recent posts about older games, I think the industry is in danger because spiralling development costs are not being rewarded with either longer sales, or more rewarding games. Games now cost millions to provide a couple of days worth of enjoyment, and live for only the 1 month rush of sales. At the same time games are buggy, unstable and the software industry goes out of it's way to screw customers. What other product is non-refundable, even if it doesn't work?

When the industry learns to protect itself, and treats it's customers as valued contributors, then perhaps we won't need threads like this anymore, but until then, I'm sure we can find more ways of blaming the consumer for the industry's problem, and who knows, maybe they can beg for some royalties from hard drive manufacturers, or PC desk makers.

[ravinhood]

LOL Dinsdale I was wondering when you would show up! hehe

And yes I plum forgot about hard-drive mfg.s and computer desk makers, yep, they too should pay. haha

The software industry and I guess the music industry are truely one of a kind, being media, copyable has it's disadvantages. Books can be copied also, but, the cost to copy a book is rather extreme, but, give it time, when books are redily available for download on the internet, that too will find it's way into the piracy side of life.

I guess I've always had the idiots belief that if there weren't piracy that the cost of software would be less, but, I suppose that's really untrue, the software industry would just pocket the money and get richer, I've said it before, sometimes I don't know which is the lesser of the two evils, a software publisher that releases crap and buggy games that we can't return or the theiving pirates that don't spend a dime for software/media and get everything for free, while I work and shell out my hard earned money to support BOTH of them actually.

[SlapBone]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood



The software industry and I guess the music industry are truely one of a kind, being media, copyable has it's disadvantages. Books can be copied also, but, the cost to copy a book is rather extreme, but, give it time, when books are redily available for download on the internet, that too will find it's way into the piracy side of life.

This goes to one of the root issues. When we, as a society decide that our main means of assimilating the world around us will be from a computer (or television) screen instead of the written word, then so be it. I am ready for it.

I, as a customer, will spend just as much of my money on digitally downloaded products than I ever did on boxed games.

[ravinhood]

I, as a customer, will spend just as much of my money on digitally downloaded products than I ever did on boxed games.

But, I won't so that rather cancels each other out now doesn't it?

[SlapBone]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

I, as a customer, will spend just as much of my money on digitally downloaded products than I ever did on boxed games.

But, I won't so that rather cancels each other out now doesn't it?

But I've already done a poll and I've figured out (from the poll numbers) that 1 out of every one game purchases in my house will be done by electronic means. Thats 100% for the mathmatically challenged. So that kind of outweighs your evidence...right?

I guess this does prove that 95% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

[Pippin]

When I really like a game, I prefer to buy it in the real box. There is something.. Special about having the physical property with you. The real CD, with a real manual (If lucky)… the real box to sit with all your other real boxes.

Now, I know when your playing the game, what is not REAL does not matter (puns not intended.).

[ravinhood]

Well Pippin broke the poll, he has sided with the game in hand over direct download or direct sales.

Guess that proves that polls are rediculous and only an individuals preferences matters.

[Cmdrcain]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Oh I definitely agree that in the "far" future most everything will be internet buyable/downloadable. But, this is the present right now, so I still prefer holding the package in my hand, feeling the "must buy it" feeling steadily build up inside of me and then fighting it off and placing it back on the shelf until it get's cheaper. hehe (not just software here either, I use this buying technique in a lot of my purchases today). Especially milk have you seen the price for a gallon of milk these days??? $4 flippin dollars., heck I can drink a gallon of gasoline cheaper than that! LOL Why is it that the things we need are getting more expensive, and niceities are getting less expensive?? Wasn't it suppose to be the other way around??? I remember when a 486sx25 was over $1300 and now I can build a P4 2.4+ with 512mb ddr 3200pc ram, for a little over $300, yet a flipping graphics card to run many of these bloomin games is $400!! lol Technology prices are crazy.

There's hardly anywhere close to 50% of the American population on the internet atm. Of course these figures grow daily, but, there's still a long road to go before it becomes a pratical norm like the telephone or the tv. Perhaps in another 25 years, but, heh, I should be dead and gone by then. lol Then I don't care what they do with it.

Hummm....

I'm old enough to remember when COLOR TV was brand spanking new...

Who woulda thought in about 15-20 years It would be in almost every home?

I'd note in the days of 486 puters, Computers were still a Luxury item, whats caused drops is that computers became big like TV's, maybe not every home is on internet but compared to the time of 486's nowadays many more homes have at least a basic computer, with large use comes Mass production and so overall costs drop and prices drop.

Graphics cards for $400 are high end cards, you don't need a high end card for most games, I'm on a $79 All In Wonder Radeon 32MB AGP 4x card at least thats what cost a bit over a year ago.

I think it will be sooner then 25 years... Internet shopping is likely be here within 10 years... why?

Because Kids who grew up using PC's are in Hs or are In College and will be Graduating from them, they will get jobs and they WILL buy a PC cause they consider it as essential as a TV
[:D]

10-15 Years and Many Of them will be married and be using PC's and Internet as a shopping device could take off, why waste time walking around in a Walmart when you can in minutes page through a catalog and order online and have delivered in a few days if not next day (from the local Walmart) No need spend gas nor time going there to look..

I think we will be headed well into a technology revolution similar to how TV's changed things, B/W TV's were the beginnings (you can call XT/386/486 the B/W tvs of now) Then the early Color TV (Pentium and Pentium II) then came the Big TV's (celerons) and we are headed into the era of High defination TV (Pentium 4's and up)

Theres similaries... The PC markets going to grow and most any home will have a PC... Or PC access..

[Cmdrcain]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

I myself have to look at "cost vs advantage", a broadband connection is $30 a month which equates to $360 a year, dialup is $9.95 a month which equates to a little less than $120 a year, do the math $360 minus $120 leaves $240 for buying games or other products I can consume or use, I think I prefer dialup much better in the long term than the niceity of it in the short term. Broadbands only advantage for me would be faster downloads of "PATCHES" (or games from Matrix ), is that worth the extra $240 a year, when the closest software outlet is only 3 miles away

What about the extra time spent with a dialup, you may take 3x-4x the time I would if not more in web browsing, web searchs and the like.

Decreasing time with broadband either gives you more time to waste on internet and see more etc or get things done faster so have more free time for other things... lets say your internet times 2 hrs , broad band same things take you 30-45 min... and then you have extra tim for other things.

What I see broadband being an advantage to besides the businesses is that it creates a higher population of piracy, when everyone had to use dialup, you wouldn't read about X amount of downloads of a popular game on prominent websites Nowadays it's almost a common norm. Broadband just

No , we read of that on various [:'(] FIDOnet forums and on Local BBS message boards and so on, you THINK in dialup only days that there was no piracy? LOL! BLOL!

Maybe the software association could get some royalties from the internet connection services, since it's really them that are giving the pirates the means to do what they do, along with Bill Gates who creates the OS that allows them to do what they do, and computer manufacturers who build computers that allow them to do what they do. heh Absurd I know, but, factual, yes.

Absurd yes since ISP's provide only the connection, how it gets used by people is same as how say a car gets used, is a car rental then liable for every crime where their rented car is involved in?

advantages given. The entertainment I play barely requires a 1ghz system nowadays if that, the majority I would say would require a 500mhz or less.

Well I built a 1.8ghz system, However few games really require a flashy $400 graphics card so my $79 32mb cards sufficent, if I ever need to I can upgrade that, the really important parts of any Pc are processor and Motherboard, rest are upgradable if need something better.

Now, that I have the hardware and internet connection issues at the bare minimums, I must work on the software publishers pricing policies. Ohhhhh Matrix....WitP is too expensive. hehe

[:'(]


Considering Pacific War, 90's DOS game was $69.95 NEW in 90's dollars WITP at $70 ($80 with CD) is CHEAP if adjust for the value of the &70 in early 90's dollars [:-]

[Cmdrcain]

ORIGINAL: Hexed Gamer

Can't fault your numbers there Ravinhood

True, if I was just using broadband for wargaming purposes, it would not be worth the cash. My broadband allows my phone undisturbed access while I am online, but when I consider the actual amount of times it would matter, it is unlikely a hassle.

My broadband ain't free to be sure. It costs me 45 bucks a month.

The speed at which a web page loads certainly is not the reason I went to broadband.

Well, for me with broadband I have fast connection which makes the IP Relay for me (my way to make a phone call) much easier then with my old TTY on a Phone line.... Actually I was paying for a 2nd phone line in this house I'm in for my Computer, thats now gone and the cost of the 2nd line plus Dialup wasn't far from the cost of just the broadband connection..

Mayhap speed web pages load wasmy for you but if think on it dialup , web pages take more time, overall it takes more time to use dialup,
so spending more time even if only always browse same pages if on dialup then if use broadband.

Also broadband opens up more of the online stuff like sports clips etc for viewing for me.

As the technology proceeds watch TV premium Stuff increase..

[Cmdrcain]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

kind, being media, copyable has it's disadvantages. Books can be copied also, but, the cost to copy a book is rather extreme, but, give it time, when books are redily available for download on the internet, that too will find it's way into the piracy side of life.

Theres more and more Ebooks out there and some authors have put some titles out only as ebooks, I got Antares Victory, the final book in the Antares Dawn-Antares Passage via ebook d/l, you can order a bound copy for $17.95 vs the ebooks $7.95 via author, but point is as Palm's and other things get cheaper, more Books likely will be in electronic form, it can be cheaper to price electronic versions without the paper and printing and distributing etc costs..

The one thing thats held back ebooks is having to read off a PC but as I said oif hand held palms etc get cheap enough you may see ebooks take off, in fact ebooks MIGHT well be a way for wanna be authors to publish for themselves which might actually increase the amount of good literature out there...

I guess I've always had the idiots belief that if there weren't piracy that the cost of software would be less, but, I suppose that's really untrue, the software industry would just pocket the money and get richer, I've said it before, sometimes I don't know which is the lesser

Its always easy to blame something for a reason to have high prices, you know, take that thought deeper, all this talk of Capping jury awards etc to reduce overall insurnce etc costs is similar... If theres anyone out there who thinks capping jury awards will bring down overall insurance and healthcare costs well I got this bridge in brooklyn I have for sale...

[Maliki]

ORIGINAL: Sarge

Matrix is not alone in this guys (forum members), I recently seen CMBO and CMBB at EB and both games were marked $ 9.99 each [X(]. Go look at what you would pay online for them at Battlefront .

I got to find new EB's to shop at.The 3 around me have these titles,and UV,still at the full price[:@][:D]

Now this is not saying much because usually it is only one or two boxes sitting on the shelfs,but even their pre-owned console games are selling from $29.99 to $39.99 even if their over a year old.The only way i buy used or discounted is if i'm not sure about a game or have never heard about it.That plus the fact(PC games) that normally these games are sold in nothing more but sealed plastic without anything but the CD keeps my bargain and preowned games purchases to a minimum.

Though there are those Lego games i've been eyeing[:D]