ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker
Who cares about the votes. Do ya think the thevoters in the state of Connecticut paid more than any other tax payers to get a Seawolf Class SSN named after it? Isn't New London and Electric Boat enough of a bloody kickback over the decades?
Actually there isn't much submarine infrastructure left in New London. It's nearly all in Groton now (the Sub Base and Electric Boat). And appartently the kickbacks were not enough, because there was the USS Groton (SSN 694) in addition to the Connecticut. [;)]
By the way, I always found it odd that Newport News produced so many quality boats through the years, but the one named precisely to honor them (CA148 Newport News) was specially plagued by all kinds of troubles during its operational life!
I was thinking about the thread with the "coolest" ship names, when I thought of "uncoolest" names. It struck me to find this one particularly not cool:
CVB42 Franklin D Roosevelt
It was the first attempt to stop giving famous battle place names for carriers, and brought the politics in. A decade later you got the politicians like a flood: John F Kenned, Nimitz, Einsenhower, Carl Vinson, etc...
Never again there will a carrier with a beautiful name like Yorktown or Lexington, but only the memory of politicians that were only doing the job they were elected or chosen to do.
Regards,
F.
Nimitz a Politican?
Sure it wasn't Nimitz more due to his War service?
And Ike? Might been more due to his War Service then him being President...
Carl Vinson was a Politican?
Noise? What Noise? It's sooooo quiet and Peaceful! Battlestar Pegasus
I was thinking about the thread with the "coolest" ship names, when I thought of "uncoolest" names. It struck me to find this one particularly not cool:
CVB42 Franklin D Roosevelt
It was the first attempt to stop giving famous battle place names for carriers, and brought the politics in. A decade later you got the politicians like a flood: John F Kenned, Nimitz, Einsenhower, Carl Vinson, etc...
Never again there will a carrier with a beautiful name like Yorktown or Lexington, but only the memory of politicians that were only doing the job they were elected or chosen to do.
Regards,
F.
Nimitz a Politican?
Sure it wasn't Nimitz more due to his War service?
And Ike? Might been more due to his War Service then him being President...
Carl Vinson was a Politican?
Carl Vinson was SecNav.
Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan
Sure it wasn't Nimitz more due to his War service?
And Ike? Might been more due to his War Service then him being President...
Carl Vinson was a Politican?
I wrote somewhere above that I would absolve Nimitz and Eisenhower from being political namings... but now I'm not so sure about Eisenhower. Several other CVNs are named after presidents, Nimitz is named after an Admiral and no other ship is named after a General. I suspect that being a dead president is what bore the greatest weight, but then who knows.
Naming a ship after Carl Vinson (rather than say Woodrow Wilson or Ulysses Grant) was definitely a political option to please someone. Outside of the military establishment, Mr. Carl Vinson and Forrestal had very little impact, and I personally would never know about Carl Vinson if it wasn't for the ship.
F
PS: No offense intended to Carl Vinson and Forrestal. I just think it's too much a privilege already for them to just do the jobs they were chosen to do.
The appalling naming habits of the latter-day USN notwithstanding, at least they are not as bad as one of Churchill's dafter ideas. As First Lord of the Admiralty before WW1, he kept trying to persuade His Majesty that a good name for a battleship would be HMS Oliver Cromwell. King George V was perfectly happy to have a ship named after himself, but absolutely refused to approve one named for a chap who thought it a good idea to cut off the head of a reigning monarch....
Sure it wasn't Nimitz more due to his War service?
And Ike? Might been more due to his War Service then him being President...
Carl Vinson was a Politican?
Carl Vinson was SecNav.
Ron at least get his job right will ya [;)] (Canadians think they know everything [:-])
CONGRESSMAN Carl Vinson of Georgia, did more to help the US armed forces especially the US Navy that any other elected politician in the 20th century.
Serving 50+ years, 29 of those as the chairman of the House Naval Affairs Committee, Armed Services Committee. Author of the Vinson - Trammel Act, better known as the Two Ocean Navy Act just prior to the outbreak of WWII, he also championed naval Avaitaion and also pushed thru the funding that allowed Rickover to play with nukes on submarines. He was a friend of the Navy on the hill for his entire tenure in congress.
If ANY politician ever deserved a ship named after them Congressman Vinson certainly did for his tireless efforts on behalf of the US Navy during 50+ years of public service.
otoh we have an ffg named after samuel b roberts (a de of leyte gulf fame) that ate an exocet in the gulf during the tanker war battles.
That was actually USS Stark. She was on the pier next to us at Ingalls shipyard being repaired after the exocet incident when we were refitting Wisconsin in '88.[:)]
"It take a brave soldier to be a coward in the Red Army" -- Uncle Joe
"Is it you or I that commands 9th Army, My Fuhrer?" -- Model
otoh we have an ffg named after samuel b roberts (a de of leyte gulf fame) that ate an exocet in the gulf during the tanker war battles.
That was actually USS Stark. She was on the pier next to us at Ingalls shipyard being repaired after the exocet incident when we were refitting Wisconsin in '88.[:)]
Samuel B Roberts was mined in the gulf, IIRC. That report should please Damien Thorn [;)]
Exocets always remind me of an Aerospatiale ad I used to see in AFJ back in the early 80s. They were plugging Exocet, and for the photo in their ad selected one of HMS Sheffield, listing and burning. The view was from above and astern so it was not easy to tell what ship it was. But hey, that was one of Exocet's finest hours....
Sort of funny reading through this thread how whenever the ENTERPRISE name comes up people usually think the "Big E" with the saucer section and warp drive. LOL! Theres SO MUCH history with that ship and ship name. The navy obviously loved her. They built the first Nuclear Carrier and named her "Enterpise" and the first shuttle was named that as well.
Some of the politician named ships have their merits. I don't mind them as much, though to be fair, I'm surprised we didn't go back to that original naming convention for them. Why not have this?
Well, uh, technically only Enterprise is a "CVN", right? The others are CVs....[&:]
Btw, where does the name "Kitty Hawk" come from? I guess a trip to navy.mil would reveal some answers but I'm too lazy. Civil War?
The other names were just suggestions. [:D] I personally wouldn't mind seeing them, but yes, CVN Enterprise is the only one of the lot that exists. As to Kitty Hawk, she was named after the location of the first air flight of the Wright Brothers which actually follows the older traditions of famous locations or battles.
EDIT: On a sort of "side-bar" to the "Big E" of today, she's still in service with the USN and is getting ready to go out again and has been in service since 1960. From what I've read about the Nuclear Carriers, I understand they have a life expectency of around 50yrs. Least in terms of how long the plant is expected to last and run safely. Perhaps longer, but 50 seems standard. So I think we can expect to see the "Big E" for the rest of this decade and into the next perhaps. [8D] I may be a "wingnut" by trade, but I do love navy history.
"Send in the Infantry. Tanks cost money... the dead cost nothing..."
ORIGINAL: 2Stepper
EDIT: On a sort of "side-bar" to the "Big E" of today, she's still in service with the USN and is getting ready to go out again and has been in service since 1960. From what I've read about the Nuclear Carriers, I understand they have a life expectency of around 50yrs. Least in terms of how long the plant is expected to last and run safely. Perhaps longer, but 50 seems standard. So I think we can expect to see the "Big E" for the rest of this decade and into the next perhaps. [8D] I may be a "wingnut" by trade, but I do love navy history.
The Big "E" is still one of the best carriers in the USN. She's probably the most powerful, with 8 reactors compared to 2 in the Nimitz' class, albeit they might have higher output/reactor. (Same engineering approach as the Empire State building, really - didn't have any references, so better safe than sorry. 8 reactors are overkill for carrier purposes, but they didn't know that) I think she's the fastest too, since she's longer and narrower than Nimitz.
We'll see her on the high seas for at least 2 more decades. I doubt they'll retire her before Kitty Hawk or JFK. The only reason could be that having a non-nuclear CV is beneficial for operations in friendly, but nuclear off-limit, waters. Like Japan.
Btw, another impressive age has got to be the B-52s. How many remain, they're about 90 left in active service I think? Most of them are over 50 years old and will be closer to 100 when they are finally decomissioned! [X(]
Remember that Lexington and Saratoga followed were laid down as cruisers and changed to Carriers due to the Washington Treaty.
The names are carryovers from their origins.
the other WWII Carriers were name after older ships. It wasn't until much later that the US decided carries would be named after Ex- Pres.
The Big "E" is still one of the best carriers in the USN. She's probably the most powerful, with 8 reactors compared to 2 in the Nimitz' class, albeit they might have higher output/reactor. (Same engineering approach as the Empire State building, really - didn't have any references, so better safe than sorry. 8 reactors are overkill for carrier purposes, but they didn't know that) I think she's the fastest too, since she's longer and narrower than Nimitz.
I suspect you're right about the JFK and the KHawk. They're fine Diesel powered carriers to be sure, but they don't have the staying power that the Big E does. And that 50yr mark? It's a benchmark that I read on a background site of the Nimitz class. You maybe right about Enterprise. With 8 plants on board she may well be around for some time yet. [8D] Something that wouldn't bother this "Enterprise" fan in the least...
Do I shelter the Big E, in WiTP? Naw, I put her in the mix with the rest... But the couple times that she's been sunk in UV have always been a downer and I'm sure the same will be true in WiTP. Be curious to see if she's redesignated an Essex class for later deployment if that happens. [8D]
"Send in the Infantry. Tanks cost money... the dead cost nothing..."
Kitty Hawk
CV-63 29 Apr 1961 Active, Named for the place of the first heavier than air flight.
Constellation
CV-64 27 Oct 1961 Decom. 7 Aug. 2003 Towed 12 September 2003, to be placed in inactive reserve in the Naval Inactive Ship Maintenance Facility (NISMF), Bremerton, Wash.
Enterprise (Mobile Chernobyl-un-offical nickname)
CVN-65 25 Nov 1961 Active; Named after a long line of USN warships.
America
CV-66 23 Jan 1965 DECOM. 9 Aug 1996 Stricken from Navy List; In the Naval Inactive Ship Maintenance Facility (NISMF), Philadelphia, Penn. To be scrapped. Named as one of the NEW type carriers, proposed sister ship was United States
John F. Kennedy CV-67 7 Sep 1968 — Active; Named for an Assainated President and former Naval officer.
Nimitz CVN-68 3 May 1975 Active In this Forum I should not have to say a word. This was the first of a new class and the only curreent build class of Nuclear Carrier.
Dwight D. Eisenhower CVN-69 18 Oct 1977 — Active- Ex-President and First Leader of the Cold War. Former CINCSHAEF.
Carl Vinson CVN-70 13 Mar 1982 — Active-Congressman who worked tirelessly to expand and modernize the USN Beginning in the 1930’s. Trivia the CAG Plane on the Chuck Boat is named Ms. Molly for his Secretary. This boat was built during teh Carter administration and was built from spare parts out of the Navy storage yard. I have seen fittings that have the Name Oriskany and Bonhome Richard on them.
Theodore Roosevelt CVN71 25 Oct 1986 — Active- Hero of Spanish American War, and Former Sec. Nav. Also Built the Great White Fleet and was staunch proponent of the Navy..
Abraham Lincoln CVN-72 11 Nov 1989 Active- President during the darkest hours of our Country.
George Washington CVN-73 4 July 1992 Active -First U.S. President, proponent for a Navy, Was President when USN was officially named.
John C. Stennis CVN-74 9 Dec 1995 Active- It was due to his work with the Armed Services committee (1969-1980) that he became known as the "Father of America's Modern Navy."
Harry S. Truman CVN-75 25 July 1998 Active Was the President at the End of WWII. Resisted the drive of Congress to reduce the Navy to what he called an unsafe level.
Ronald Reagan CVN-76 12 July 2003 Active Revived the Military from a very sad state beginning in 1981, was the driving force to increasing the USN from a 187 ship Navy to 500 ship Navy. Introduced many plans to Modernize and truly implement the Volunteer force..
George H. W. Bush CVN-77 To be Built. Ex-President, and former Naval Aviator. Budgeted and proposed the building of the last 6 carriers.
The Tradition of Naming warships for Famous Basttles has been passed to the more numerous Cruiser group. Famous Military Figures are named with Destroyers. I.e. Arliegh Burke class of DDG. Submarines , the Boomers (missle boats) took up for the Battleships as for State Names (Kentucky, New York, Alabama etc.) Attack boats took up the old job of being named for cities, this used ot be Cruiser names- St. Louis, La Jolla, San Diego.
The Army guys do nto usually get named for SHips, but some USNS are named for them, Houge, and Anderson both MPF ships I have been on. The Army guys get stuff like tanks named for them. M1A Abrams Heavy Battle Tank named for General Abrams, The T-48 Patton, the T-26 Pershing, Bradley Fighting Vehicle (he was teh G.I. general so a troop transport) and many other items.
The Airforce is the only branch that I know of that names stuff regularly after animals. They Name War planes after winged hunters for fighters- Falcon, Eagle. The Helocopters are named for Native American (Indian) tribes. UH-1 Iraquois, AH-64 Apache, the Comanche wich got canceled, OH-58 Kiowa, UH-60 Blackhawk, and CH-47 Chinook. These just name a few. On a side note, many people have thier panties in a bunch over these names. I find it very strange that these people are upset since teh U.S> Military has chosen to honor a former foe, with these names. The idea behind this was that the American indians were fierce, strong and noble fighters. They were the best light cavalry in the world at the time. The Helocopter is the modern equivlent of that light cavalry. Anyway. I beleive that the Nameing conventions for the US military are not very political. To gt your name on somehting you had to have done something very important for the service they are naming somehting for you.
Oh and some past things for names brought up. IN ww2 we had a Grant tank named for U.S. Grant, and a sister tank called the Lee. The M-5 tank was named for J.E.B. Stuart General CSA, was one of the best light tanks of teh war, the Brits called them the "Honey". The M-4 Sherman was named for Gen. Sherman of the Civil war, and his push to the sea. So all in all I think the Army gets it's fair share in the community it should.
Oh I forgot, there are a group of Carreir type ships that were named for Battles, that is teh LHA class they were named for famous Marine battles, Tarawa, and Iwo Jima were two that I serviced when I was in the Navy. They are now being replaced by LHD's which are getting the old CV names, The Boxer, and Essex are here in San Diego.
