Do the japanese get some superfast Inf Divs in the first six months?

[Svar]

OK, I have another example where a Dutch unit attempts to move into a hex over a period of days that a Japanese unit does in 1 day.

The Dutch unit 1st WS Garrison battlion had just entered hex 19,55 on 3/1/42 with 1 mile toward hex 20,55 which is Palembang. By 3/5/42 1st WS Garrison battalion has advanced 12 miles toward Palembang. Unfortunately on 3/5/42 the Japanese 2nd Parachute regiment along with many other units captured Palembang and moved in 1 day into hex 19,55 with the Dutch 1st WS Garrison battalion so the 1st couldn't advance anymore into Palembang. The 1st WS Garrison battalion was at disruption 22 and fatigue 68 on 2/28/42 just before it moved onto hex 19,55. While in hex 19,55 from 3/1/42 until 3/6/42 the 1st WS Garrison battalion went from disruption 22 and fatigue 67 to disruption 20 and fatigue 64. When the Japanese 2nd Parachute regiment moved from Palembang on 3/6/42 to hex 19.55 it had disruption 30 and fatigue 63 go to disruption 31 and fatigue 65. On 3/7/42 the 2nd Parachute regiment along with 4 other Japanese units that made the same move pushed out the 1st WS Garrison battalion. On 3/8/42 the Japanese 2nd Parachute regiment along with its 4 buddies moved back into Palembang.

At the rate of 11 miles in 4 days the 1st WS Garrison battalion would have taken 22 days to get into Palembang from hex 19,55. All the Japanese units made the same move in 1 day. Again I ask how is this possible?

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

[:D]Hey, Mike Scholl. You call a spade a shovel for the most part don't ya. No pulling punches for you. How many girlfriends have you pissed off in your time? "Honey, your coffee tastes like shit! You wear too much make-up, why? Because you're ugly! You drive like a girl! Boring!!! I can do better with my hand and I'm a thalydamide baby!"[;)]

Not giving you shit here. Most times when I read your posts I cough tea through my nose.[X(]

In answer to your question..., EVERY SINGLE ONE! I am cursed with honesty, which my
ex found interesting at first, then annoying, then "gounds for seperation". Damned near
choked on my coke reading your post.

Nearly choked on your drink? Then we're even![:D] I do find many of your posts funny.

[moses]

The simple explanation.

Hex 19,55 is a trail hex-you move at the trail rate. It will take at least 15 days to get from 19,55 to Palemburg.

Palemburg is a road hex-you move at the road rate. It will take one or two days to get from Palemburg to hex 19,55.

[Top Cat]

Well the Japanese did repeatedly outflank the Brits in Malaysia through what was considered impossible vehicle terrain.

The secret turned out to be the humble bicycle.
Talk about deadly treadlies.


Cheers
Top Cat

[Mike Scholl]

[quote]ORIGINAL: Top Cat

Well the Japanese did repeatedly outflank the Brits in Malaysia through what was considered impossible vehicle terrain.

The secret turned out to be the humble bicycle.
Talk about deadly treadlies.

But even with the bicycles, it took them almost 7 weeks to get to the Jahore Straits.
In the game I've seen it done in less than 7 days. The land movement system could
use some revision.

[Svar]

ORIGINAL: moses

The simple explanation.

Hex 19,55 is a trail hex-you move at the trail rate. It will take at least 15 days to get from 19,55 to Palemburg.

Palemburg is a road hex-you move at the road rate. It will take one or two days to get from Palemburg to hex 19,55.

I understand the time it was going to take the Dutch unit to get from hex 19,55 to Palembang but 5 Japanese units went from hex 19,55 to Palembang in 1 day. Both the Japanese units and the Dutch unit had about the same amount of fatigue which slows down movement so why when the Dutch unit was going to take 22 days did the Japanese units travel the same distance in 1 day?

[von Murrin]

If it's happening after combat, I would assume they are pursuing (using the option, not just tagging along behind). Anything else is a bit bizarre, even on railways.

[neuromancer]

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

I'm looking forward to seeing what kind of imaginative "explanations" you get
to this question. 257 miles in two days is going to give even the Japanese Fan
Boys a real challange.

Okay, I was going to say that one of the advantages the IJA had over the Brits and Yanks of the day was that they traveled very light. The standard militaries carried a lot of gear on them that just weighed them down in the jungle. The IJA didn't, and so pure infantry could move quite adeptly through the jungle.

But 257 miles in two days!?

That seems a tad extreme!

Over 5 miles an hour, by foot, with no stops for sleep, eating, or going potty?


Damn those Germans! They must have sold the IJA their prototype helicopters, these were actually the first Air Cav!

Yeah... that must be it...
[8|]

[neuromancer]

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

ORIGINAL: Top Cat

Well the Japanese did repeatedly outflank the Brits in Malaysia through what was considered impossible vehicle terrain.

The secret turned out to be the humble bicycle.
Talk about deadly treadlies.

But even with the bicycles, it took them almost 7 weeks to get to the Jahore Straits.
In the game I've seen it done in less than 7 days. The land movement system could
use some revision.

Motorbikes.
A whole bunch of 80 cc Honda dirt bikes.

Have your men listen for what sounds like a bunch of large and annoying bees in the distance.

[:'(]

[tabpub]

I am always intrigued by the story of the Indians fleeing from the advancing Japanese in Malaya. Seems that the Japs were going so fast, they blew out their tires and were running on the rims. The Indians, hearing the clatter, thought they were tanks and vamoosed. Opinions? Bueller?

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: von Murrin

If it's happening after combat, I would assume they are pursuing (using the option, not just tagging along behind). Anything else is a bit bizarre, even on railways.

PURSUIT is one of the culprits, which is why I'd like to see it removed from the system.
It was an interesting notion..., but in practice it's a disaster. It would probably be an
acceptable practice with 10 mile hexes, but with 60 mile hexes it produces obscene
results.

[bradfordkay]

How many girlfriends have you pissed off in your time? "Honey, your coffee tastes like ****! You wear too much make-up, why? Because you're ugly! You drive like a girl! Boring!!! I can do better with my hand and I'm a thalydamide baby!"

I once told a girlfriend that she drove like my grandmother. Guess what, she dumped me within two months...


I also have some problems with the pursuit rules. First of all, I think that with 60 miles hexes, a unit shouldn't be forced to retreat to another hex right away. When combined with the pursuit rules, this is what allows troops to march 420 miles through the jungle in 7 days. Allow the attacker to control the base, but the defender shouldn't be forced into another hex. Were the Japanese sent 60 miles from Henderson field when the 1st Marines captured that base?

[Captain Cruft]

OK well it does seem like there are problems here. Thanks to moses for pointing out a possible explanation for my particular one.

Rail lines: I would like these to work differently. For marching purposes they should be no different to a road. There should however be a separate "transfer by rail" function which would whizz units anywhere on the rail grid instantly. Somewhat akin to air group transfer, units which use this would suffer extensive disruption.

[LargeSlowTarget]

ORIGINAL: neuromancer

But 257 miles in two days!?

That seems a tad extreme!

Over 5 miles an hour, by foot, with no stops for sleep, eating, or going potty?

Rice-propelled b@st@rds... (appreciatory, not derogatory [;)])

[moses]

I really think that instead of pursuit we should have the opposite effect. Units that capture a hex through combat should be immediatly disrupted to a level that prevents significant movement for the next 3 or 4 turns. Why?? Even after a total victory the enemy still has somthing covering its retreat. There's still enemy forces that need to be mopped up, obstacles/minefields to be cleared, prisoners/wounded to evacuate, infrastructure damage to repair, civilians to deal with. A 60 mile hex is a lot of ground to get control of and while we can't simulate the forces that would probably continue fighting for weeks or months in the captured hexes there should be some effect in the game that takes this reality into account.

An additional possibility is to require captured locations to require a garrison for some period of time. Somthing like 1/4 of the assault strength of the defeated force declining by 10 % or so a turn.

Rail movement rates should only be allowed between friendly bases connected by a rail path free of enemy units.

These 3 changes would tend to slow combat to more realistic rates in Malaya, Burma, and China.

Unit movment rates should be the average value of the current and destination hex. This prevent situations where it takes 20 days to march into a hex and 1 day to march back.

All one hex moves should be executed exactly as input by the user. If I plot a unit to move one hex north it should march north and not head off in another direction via the rail/road net.

These changes would pretty much fix the ground movement system and with them the ground combat system in the large land theaters would more realistic.

[Luskan]

Eh? 257 miles you say????

Whats your secret? length of malaya in 7 days??????? Again, I need to know this one.

I find rested, supplied and supported units with no knocked out elements move much faster than the units with any of these lacking as it should be. However even all of the above and a railroad the best I've managed is 30 miles a day for 2 days. After that it goes to more like 17 for another few days and if I don't rest etc it ends up being closer to 10.

Even with the roads, it can sometimes take almost 5 full days of marching to get my disrupted, tired units off the beach and inland in the PI. Understandable in the confusion but 257???

I don't think the AI gets movement bonuses . . . Can you make it happen by playing head to head or by playinga s the japs and getting super fast allied units?

[neuromancer]

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget
Rice-propelled b@st@rds... (appreciatory, not derogatory [;)])

I guess 'Charlie' got that sort of respect in Vietnam as well.

As one TV show put it: 'Charlie was a shrimpy little guy that ran around the jungle in a pair of pajamas. Toughest guy I ever knew.'


Some people never grasp the concept that its probably a better idea to respect your enemy, than simply hate and dismiss them. And years after the war is over, there is no real reason not to respect a past enemy's strengths.

[BPRE]

Here's another example of weird marching by Japanese infantry divisions. It's taken from a computer versus computer game started in 1.10 and now running in version 1.21. ALl settings are standard/historical.

18th Div, 33rd Div, 55th Div and 56th Div have been sent from north Burma towards Akyab. The route is from Pagan across the mountain hex 31,30 to Akyab. At start of each day it looked like this:

Code: Select all

 Date    Div  Distance traveled
 
 3/8/42  18th        14
         The others are not yet there
 
 3/9/42  18th        15
         55th        29
         56th        0
 
 3/10/42 18th        16
         33rd        9
         55th        32
         56th        3
 
 3/11/42 18th        19
         33rd        10
         55th        35
         56th        4
 
 3/12/42 18th        22
         33rd        13
         55th        38
         56th        7
 
 3/13/42 18th        25
         33rd        14
         55th        41
         56th        8
 
 3/14/42 All Div's are in Akyab.
 

When they arrived in Akyab they all had fatigue between 60 and 65. Before started across the mountain they were pretty tird (don't remember exact figures though).

moses explanation fits in quite well until the 14th. Something happened then. In case somebody is interested I've got saves from each day.

/BPRE

[Charles2222]

ORIGINAL: Svar

ORIGINAL: moses

The simple explanation.

Hex 19,55 is a trail hex-you move at the trail rate. It will take at least 15 days to get from 19,55 to Palemburg.

Palemburg is a road hex-you move at the road rate. It will take one or two days to get from Palemburg to hex 19,55.

I understand the time it was going to take the Dutch unit to get from hex 19,55 to Palembang but 5 Japanese units went from hex 19,55 to Palembang in 1 day. Both the Japanese units and the Dutch unit had about the same amount of fatigue which slows down movement so why when the Dutch unit was going to take 22 days did the Japanese units travel the same distance in 1 day?

Could it be the computer moved the JA units first, all five of them at the same time, and that the DU unit ran against reduced movement due to some stacking limitation that slows movement into the hex?

[Halsey]

I have the pursuit problem in my test game. Chased a base force into a mountain hex on one turn then attacked it and followed the unit across a river and into a jungle hex the next turn. 120 miles through the mountains, over a river and into a jungle in two days.[X(]

No roads in either of the hexes.

Give me a break! Are they giving Viagra rations to their troops?[:D]

I hope this gets fixed soon.[:(]