"Let them eat beans, d@$mit!"

BruceAZ · Post by **BruceAZ** » Thu Dec 20, 2001 7:58 am

Have you ever thought of what SPWAW would be like if it was tied to a tactical logistical tail? I have been playing SP series since inception and always wondered how it (or any tactical wargame) would really play if I had to play it with a logistic tail.

You know the saying, an “army marches on its stomach…”

It is easy to plan a company size attack with given specific objectives but how would I accomplish this if the game required me to have 5 or 10 supply trucks to defend as would be in real life? I would not only need to rearm and refuel but to frequently re-supply. All of a sudden, my master strategy takes a new wrinkle because of the logistical tail necessary to support the attack. (Or defend the objective)

I realize that SPWaW is designed to assume the tail follows out of the MBA (other than ammo trucks) but what if it was required to meet your objectives? Where would you place them? To far forward and you put them in jeopardy. To far to the rear and you cannot maintain the attack. They are very vulnerable and easy prey for tactical aircraft or marauding recon units. Problems, problems…

Sure makes you stop and think about the possibilities and headaches of real command.

I sure hope no one puts this in the game BEFORE I figure out how to knock out a Tiger with a Sherman. I think I have enough headaches as it is! <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Warrior · Post by **Warrior** » Thu Dec 20, 2001 8:30 am

I may be wrong, but I think there will be something like what you describe in Combat Leader.

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Thu Dec 20, 2001 10:53 am

Not for a while ... BUt if you have ever played Command Decision those are teh sort of Logistic rules I hope to get to...

Hauptmann6 · Post by **Hauptmann6** » Fri Dec 21, 2001 5:40 am

Hehe... Love those rules... Are you on the mailer?

sven · Post by **sven** » Fri Dec 21, 2001 5:45 am

If there are ever detailed logistics rules I would hope that air drops are included too. They were a vital part of many campaigns. (wink) and a certain side excelleed in that area.

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Fri Dec 21, 2001 6:11 am

Folks,

Frankly I'm glad that SP doesn't have logistics. The limited ammo and breakdowns do enough to simulate them (read: I get mad enough when things breakdown or my mortars and artillery run out of ammo, I don't care what you say about ammo dumps).

Logistics just take too long and the log battle is usually over by the time the important part of the fight starts, so you find yourself going with what you've got in real life.

From personal experience as a support platoon leader, I find logistics mind-numbingly boring, and definitely not what attracts me to this, or any game.

Finally, the scale of this game, or even the old SP3 (with brigade level) can't really simulate logistics effectively. Do you really want it to?

Regards,

Matt

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Fri Dec 21, 2001 6:39 am

RE: COmmand Decision, No - been out of it since just after 2nd edition came out. My f our tool chest of mounted microarmor have been up in my attic about 5 years...My son is 9 and I'm hoping in a couple years to pass them on <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

BruceAZ · Post by **BruceAZ** » Fri Dec 21, 2001 7:57 am

Originally posted by Matt:
Folks,

Frankly I'm glad that SP doesn't have logistics. The limited ammo and breakdowns do enough to simulate them (read: I get mad enough when things breakdown or my mortars and artillery run out of ammo, I don't care what you say about ammo dumps).

Matt

I am not quite sure I agree. Logistics is a part of all SP games whether small or large. Having the realism of supply (limited ammo, etc.) adds a new dimension that makes it a challenge and after a while, you really get to love those ammo trucks. But more importantly, the thought provides a real-life experience as logistics were (are) just important as having a well trained gun crew. That is why I like the realism abilities. If you don’t like ’em, turn ‘em off.

K G von Martinez · Post by **K G von Martinez** » Fri Dec 21, 2001 1:37 pm

Well I agree, logistics are a vital part of every war. But on the other hand if you look at the timeframe: most battles in SPWAW last from 10 to 30 turns. With about 3 minutes a turn that's 30 to 90 minutes, not the time your troops will die if they get no food . Only thing they may miss is ammunition, which is represented in the game. Of course you can ask if there is really the need for a ammunition truck - except for artillery. For the grunts somebody who carries or fetches additional ammunition if needed should be enough.

Just another thing is if you look at a situation or a scenario where it's vital to get a convoy of trucks loaded with whatever to a certain place. IIRC I've read that there is at least one scenario which depicts a situation like this. I assume the value of the trucks was upped in the editor to make the protection of them the goal of the player.