IJN Subs

[stagno]

Hi everyone!
I'll risk to be eaten alive [:D] but i must say all of this:
Is there a way to make IJn subs worth theyr existence??!!
I simply cannot use them effectively against anything.
Let them computer-controlled, than they will sail to Brisbane...and do nothing!
Put them under human control, than they will automatically set for "do not react to the enemy", lurch for the enemy Tfs and let it graciously pass trough.
No matter how many subs i group, i do not obtain results.
What is my mistake?[&:]
Not to mention mines: i had one of my ML hit by HIS OWN minefield.
Not even a scratch on enemy tfs. Again "let it graciously pass trough".[:@]
I like this game, but i always have to deal with weird and completely unrealistic events, for whom i have to try and found a possible "abstracted" reason to be!
Maybe the AI simply cheats a lot?[:-]

[tanjman]

stagno,

Some tips for submarine operations that apply to both sides.

1) There is a penalty for wolfpack tactics.
2) Submarines are more vunerable in shallow water.

I use my subs in choke points. The trick is not to park a sub in a hex and leave it there after its been spotted. Spotted subs are less effective.

BTW the AI cheats depending on the diffeculty setting, the harder the setting the more it cheats.

There have been a lot of threads on how to get the most out of your subs. I think most of them are in the War Room.

[stagno]

Thank you for the reply tanjman![&o]
About the cheating: i'm playing with difficulty set to historical, but still having a hard time.
I'll Try to avoid wolfpack tactics and chek the war room.
About the mines: after a certain time i've deployed 'em they disappear... is this due to rough seas, or something else?
Again, thank you.

[Clipper1968]

Yes your mines will disappear after a certain time especially if you have layed them in deep water.

[Blitzer]

Hi stagno,

Pumba is right about dissipating minefields, especially in deep water. In shallow areas it happens much more slowly. As far as your ML hitting your own mines, are you the owner of the base where the hit occurred? If not, then the minefield is considered "offensive" in nature and you'll continue to strike them until you capture it. On the other hand, even friendly minefields can cause damage now and then (especially if you've really loaded the hex with them).

As the Japanese, I usually mine Irau early in the game, and have been bitten in the arse by my own ordnance when I went to capture it and left the minesweepers in port. [:@]

[crsutton]

Mines will degrade by %50 per day (I think) in open water. Hit F2 to see where the shallow water hexes are. Place your mines there. If you mine a shallow water hex that is controled by the enemy (not forces but the color of the dot), then your ships will be affected by the mines as well. If you control the hex, you may pass over the mines with no problems. Detected minefields are less effective.

As for Japanese subs, I always play with historical doctrine on. They rarely sink transports, but can be deadly. Use then historically just as the Japanese did. Place them in shipping areas where Allied warships are likely to pass. They are best when positioned to catch Allied cripples that are returning with damage from a battle. Historically Japanese subs operated in close cooperation with the battle fleet. Do the same. Make your plans in advance. The rate of attacks are less, but when you put a coupla long lance torps into a Allied BB, you pretty much have put it out of the war. That is a very good thing.[X(]

Move your subs constantly, even if it is just one hex per turn. A spotted sub that does not move is dead meat for an Allied hunter killer group.

A good Allied (or Japanese) player will have plenty of LBA on ASW patrol. My experience is that this is the best way to kill subs. You would be surprised to find out how many players use very poor ASW tactics. Heavy ASW patrols will make operating subs within four hexes or so of major bases a very dangerous thing.

In fact, due to the range, Japanes bettys and nells are great sub killers. Set each air group on %40 ASW when not using them for major operations.

So keep your subs away from major bases (unless your opponent is lax about air patrols), move them when spotted, target likely spots where warships will pass and position them to chase cripples. You should get some kills.

[Blitzer]

Great post.

I would add that varying the altitudes of airgroups set to ASW makes them even more effective, especially when their experience is high. Low altitude aircraft seem to make the most hits, but you need some flying higher for spotting. Betties and Nellies take a lot of operational losses at low altitudes, so it's best to bump them up a couple thousand feet every other turn or so to cut their fatigue, and stand them down during storms. Allied heavies, on the other hand, can plough through a concrete wall and still keep on shooting.

I've had moderate success using CVs and CSs as sub killers. They work best when all their bombers and/or search planes are devoted to the task.

Sinking subs is my second-favorite thing to do in uv, after knocking down "indestructible" B-17s. [:'(]

[stagno]

As you suggested, i placed my subs along probable enemy warship routes, and made them operate separatly...and i finally obtained some good shots against enemy cripples, or against enemy approaching vessels.
Thank ya all![&o]

[CMDRMCTOAST]

You can and will hit your own mines especially if you saturate your base with
them, your capital ships suffer more so than smaller craft but no ship is immune
to them.
you can test this by boxing in your base with mines so that it is impossible to
leave in a clear hex and you will hit them especially if you just lay them with
a mine layer or two and then run your heavies thru on the next turn.