Tactical Timing questions

[PaulWRoberts]

Hi all,

Just some quick questions that I can't find answered in the manual or strategy guide.

1) Please define "force delay" precisely. Is it the amount of time that this commander's direct orders will take to trickle down through every unit he commands? In other words, will movement start after immediately after the ordering officer's force delay time has elapsed?

2) Likewise, what is a commander's individual "unit delay" for? Does it just go into the force delay for the commander above him (if there is one)?

3) What is the effect of moving a waypoint (as opposed to giving a new order) while an action is underway?

For example: If, during the assault phase of an attack, I move the final waypoint farther on in order to exploit my gains, what will happen? Is it just as if I have given a whole new order (with a full delay imposed), or is there less of a delay since the units are already moving? If so, how much less? Will the attackers continue assaulting immediately (with, I assume, further fatigue and cohesion loss), or will they reorg at a new FUP first?

Thanks!

[MarkShot]

Here is my understanding in regard to #3:

(1) Any movement of the final waypoint (task marker) will result in a replan by the AI. A replan will result in units eventually waiting for orders and then getting new orders. {I have moved an attack marker forward during an attack to further exploit having successfully dislodged a defender who is now in a state of dissarray}. It's been my personal impression that although resulting in a replan that the impact was less than having issued new orders from scratch.}

(2) Some parameter changes I believe incur no order delays. I think among these are ROF and AGGRO. {I have not personally played around with this.}

(3) Units on the attack operating under MAX order delays exhibit a form of momentum. Since it could take from 1-2 hours for them to process new orders from HQ, they will continue to attack despite new orders having been issued. As such, I often take this into consideration. Once it is clear that the attack has been successful, I'll often issue a [D]efend order to solidify my gains before the enemy has a chance to counter-attack as opposed to waiting for the AI to deem the attack successful and reorg everyone upon the objective.

My units will continue to attack for a while and when the new orders come through, they will pause briefly and then fall back and assume a defensive posture. If for some reason the AI has already ordered them to regroup on the objective, then they will just have a shorter distance to travel when the orders to deploy in a defensive posture come down from HQ.

(4) Here is a trick ... when the AI begins to reorg on the objective to avoid HQ and support units from meandering into unsecure areas of the map, change the route type to shortest. This will keep them from taking the scenic routes along enemy held roads and instead they will follow in the wake of the attacking units and be much safer.

---

Most of playing with order delays is being able to sense key trends and the time things will take. You then issue orders based on what you believe will be. When done properly, the battle appears to be unfolding without delays to the untrained observer. When done poorly, it's time to find a past time more appropriate to your skills like tic-tac-toe.

[Golf33]

ORIGINAL: Paul Roberts

Just some quick questions that I can't find answered in the manual or strategy guide.

[:)] That's because they were new features introduced in a patch after the manual and strategy guide had already been finalised.

1) Please define "force delay" precisely. Is it the amount of time that this commander's direct orders will take to trickle down through every unit he commands? In other words, will movement start after immediately after the ordering officer's force delay time has elapsed?

In general terms yes and yes, although the figure you see is only an approximation and the actual start time for each unit's movement may differ depending on the situation. For example a force in motion may not estimate the force delay very well as units will be moving closer to or further away from their HQs when the order arrives.

2) Likewise, what is a commander's individual "unit delay" for? Does it just go into the force delay for the commander above him (if there is one)?

That is the time it will take for that unit only to process an order given directly to it. For low-level units their unit delay is a component of the larger force delay shown on the Cmdr tab when the next HQ up is selected.

3) What is the effect of moving a waypoint (as opposed to giving a new order) while an action is underway?

It depends on the nature of the waypoint. Moving the final objective of any task will cause a replan. Moving the FUP for an Attack or Probe will cause a replan. Moving an en-route waypoint will not cause any delay or replanning. Basically if the waypoint marker is a circle, you can move it; if it's a square, then moving it will cause a replan and fresh issue of all orders.

For example: If, during the assault phase of an attack, I move the final waypoint farther on in order to exploit my gains, what will happen? Is it just as if I have given a whole new order (with a full delay imposed), or is there less of a delay since the units are already moving? If so, how much less? Will the attackers continue assaulting immediately (with, I assume, further fatigue and cohesion loss), or will they reorg at a new FUP first?

It's as if you gave a completely fresh order. Once the order has been processed the force will react to it as it would for any normal attack order, either selecting a new FUP or conducting a reorg at the current location and assaulting from there.

Regards
33

[Golf33]

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

(2) Some parameter changes I believe incur no order delays. I think among these are ROF and AGGRO. {I have not personally played around with this.}

Changing aggro for an attack or probe will force a replan since it affects the proportion of the force allocated to the assault and reserve elements of the plan.

Most of playing with order delays is being able to sense key trends and the time things will take. You then issue orders based on what you believe will be. When done properly, the battle appears to be unfolding without delays to the untrained observer. When done poorly, it's time to find a past time more appropriate to your skills like tic-tac-toe.

That's a little harsh. Even for real-life, experienced battle commanders, assisted by a large and competent staff, synchronising the different parts of a battle can be very difficult and sometimes impossible. HTTR simulates this quite well, so don't get too upset if the timing of your plan doesn't work out right!

With greater experience playing the game (as in real life) one gets a better handle on how long things take, but different circumstances always have an effect and I still get surprised from time to time by how long something takes, or occasionally by how much faster a force gets moving on a plan than I expected. Something else that comes with experience is formulating plans that are a bit less sensitive to variations in timing; as in real life, while a complex plan with everything worked out to the minute might look attractive, if it actually depends on everything working out to the minute it's unlikely to succeed. A simpler plan, that has more room for slack in the execution of its components, is more likely to survive.

Regards
33

[PaulWRoberts]

Thanks for the replies, all.

One thing I've learned the hard way is not to give new orders to large formations in the afternoon.

Now my next question:

Are units reorging at a FUP still capable of defending themselves, or do they become extremely vulnerable? I ask because it will strongly determine the worth of extending an attack (to exploit gains) by moving the final waypoint. Will units still work to mop up weakened enemy units while reorging (since they're probably going to be on or near the original attack target)?

[Golf33]

Any reorging unit is highly vulnerable. While they can still fire at enemy units, they are much less effective than units that are not reorging. They also go up towards the top of the on-call fires list for the enemy, along with units that are assaulting or firing.

I'm not sure what you mean by the last part of the question though.

Regards
33

[PaulWRoberts]

Sorry. By the last part of the question I meant this:

Let's say I'm successfully completing the assault phase of an attack. There are still a few enemy units around, probably in "retreat recovery" but still in need of mopping up.

If I grab and drag the original attack waypoint and push it further on, attempting to explot my gains, my units will probably reorg right where they are and might be expecially vulnerable to those enemy units that they should be mopping up instead.

[Golf33]

Yes, that's correct. This is mitigated by the likely poor condition of any enemy units that have been pushed off the position, though.

During the 'secure objective' phase, your HQ will sometimes reassess and if it determines there is still a strong enemy threat near the objective, it may allocate part of the force to a sub-attack to clear that area. I think that this only happens where the player does not specify an FUP, but Arjuna would have to clarify that.

In general terms, exploiting success in a break-through attack is best done by a force other than that which conducted the break-through. It's one more good reason to maintain a reserve, even when on the offensive.

Regards
33

[Arjuna]

ORIGINAL: Golf33
In general terms, exploiting success in a break-through attack is best done by a force other than that which conducted the break-through. It's one more good reason to maintain a reserve, even when on the offensive.

Regards
33

Spot on![:)]