ASW aircraft patrols

[Rob Brennan UK]

I'm playing japs v AI ATM, and it's now may 42. I have several float planes and some nells flying ASW between PI and formosa. And I can't think of a single sighting report let alone an attack ! .. I have had several reports and attacks from planes on naval search 1-6000 ft ( same as ASW ) . ?? is this normal .

I am having great results with surface ASW groups here and elsewhere but the planes suck. I think that ASW only flies at 1/2 range ( rounded down) and the load out on the nells isn't really appropriate ( torps). Shouldn't it be changed for bombs when on this mission type? .. also the mandatory blindfolds for all aircrew seem to be a bit unhistorical [:D]

Apolgies if this has been discussed but the search seemed to be clogged with USA ASW overpowered threads [:'(]


any thoughts folks

[Brady]

Set ASW planes to 1000 Ft, I typicaly leave them at 50% to avoid whear and tear, but you can increase it to 100% if you feal their are a lot of subs in the area, more often than not I see them spoting the subs, then I can move ships around them, atacks are not to frequent.

[esteban]

I've noticed this myself. I have had a bunch of squadrons, especially my single engine float planes, set on ASW patrol at 1000 feet, and they do not seem to be doing much. My naval search squadrons have been doing at least as many submarine attacks.

To the original poster. You might consider posting this on the support forum, to get it on the bug list, depending on whether you get more feedback like mine, or not.

[moses]

I've tested this extensively and ASW aircraft work fine. They do search to 1/2 the range you set.

Keep in mind that only 52 us subs were sunk during the entire pacific war. You should not expect to be hitting a sub every week.

ASW has the primary effect of sighting enemy subs which makes them less likely to attack. Also once sighted you know where to send you ASW groups and where not to send convoys. This in turn forces the enemy to move around a lot burning fuel and reducing time on station. Every once in a while you'll get an attack and somtimes a hit.

[Captain Cruft]

Yep I asked the same question earlier and Kid provided a test result that showed conclusively that it does work. I think the reason it "feels like" Naval Search works better is purely due it searching out twice as far. Twice the distance = a lot more than twice the number of hexes covered.

[moses]

My tests also showed that naval search was far less effective at finding subs then ASW search by a factor of 2 or 3 to one. Naval searches appear to do a half range ASW search at reduced effectivness and a full range naval search. The longer range naval search will on rare occasions sight a sub.

[Xargun]

I also use ASW planes exclusively to locate Subs so my ASW TF can prosecute and sink / drive them off. I rarely see an ASW plane make an attack and even then who knows if its a hit (FOW) or not.. The main use (I think) for ASW patrols is to locate enemy subs...

Remember a located enemy sub has less chance of intercepting your TFs and making successfull attacks due to them being located... Also, it allows you to keep your ASW TFs in port until you locate a victim then pounce on them with 2-3 TFs and sink them.

Xargun

[brisd]

So what is the consensus on altitude. Is there any advantage of 1000 ft over 6000 ft? Is it worth the operational losses or does it depend on the aircraft? Floatplanes work better at 1000 ft vs level bombers better at 6000 ft?

[moses]

In many tests I did not see much difference with different altitudes. I recieved equal results with 1000 ft, 100 ft, and 20000 ft. My tests at 3000ft and 6000ft gave me lower results but I'm not sure the differences were even statistically significant.

I'm not certain that altitude has any effect on the results of this mission type.

[Oliver Heindorf]

ORIGINAL: moses

In many tests I did not see much difference with different altitudes. I recieved equal results with 1000 ft, 100 ft, and 20000 ft. My tests at 3000ft and 6000ft gave me lower results but I'm not sure the differences were even statistically significant.

I'm not certain that altitude has any effect on the results of this mission type.

hmmmmmmmm [X(]

unrealistic , you aint see a s*** at 20000 feet usually in ASW duty

[Rob Brennan UK]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone, looks like it isn't broken after all. BUT do weapon loadouts change ? i.e nells using bombs on ASW duty and torps on naval search function.

Altitude seems a bit wierd .. 20,000 ft ? more effective than 3-6000. that does (if real) seem like a bug [&:], unfortunately i don't have time to test this ATM . Just wondering out loud if this is similar to the b17 high altitude smart bombs bug.

Given the range on some of the jap floatplanes ( i.e petes) i'll stick to naval search at least then they can travel out of thier own hex [:D]

again thank you for taking the time to reply

[Twotribes]

Half the range? Whats the point of using short range aircraft if it is half the range? And is this listed in the manual somewhere, or an undocumented feature?

[Oliver Heindorf]

the point is that if you draw a circle with a diameter of 30 hexes and deploy a search pattern onto it, you will cover only a small part of that circle. do the same with a reduced diameter ( same amount of planes ) and use a diameter of 15 - voila ! you can search this circle much more efficent. [:'(]

[Captain Cruft]

The theory is that planes on ASW Patrol are more likely to attack subs than planes on Naval Search. I can't say I've really noticed a difference. What does make a huge difference is a) having more than 1 sub in the hex and b) the subs being in a shallow water hex. You're virtually certain to get off some attacks if both of those are true. Hits is a different matter of course ...

[Rob Brennan UK]

Half the range? Whats the point of using short range aircraft if it is half the range? And is this listed in the manual somewhere, or an undocumented feature?

I picked up on this from another thread last week or so. can't really see the point though,if you want to concentrate the search just manually reduce the radius [:)]

as for whether its in the manual ?? dunno, too long to read and i hate pdf style documents

[matchwood]

Hi Rob,

I have tried setting naval search and asw to the same range (less than half) and the naval search seems to sight and hit more subs. In the manual it says that an asw is more likely to attack when it spots a sub but I have never seen a naval search not attack a sub when sighted.

One question here - do ASW attacks increase the DL of attacked subs? Could that be why naval seraches seem to work better.

Ah my first post. Feel much better now not to be a lurker.

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK

Half the range? Whats the point of using short range aircraft if it is half the range? And is this listed in the manual somewhere, or an undocumented feature?

I picked up on this from another thread last week or so. can't really see the point though,if you want to concentrate the search just manually reduce the radius [:)]

as for whether its in the manual ?? dunno, too long to read and i hate pdf style documents

I think the half range limit is to simulate that ASW loiter over friendly shipping etc and are not exactly fling a patern all the time.

[matchwood]

One thing I have noticed as Jap playing AI is that the US AI has fantastic luck with air attacks sinking Jap subs. I can have 7-8 ASW sightings and attacks on US subs with no hits. One sighting by a US naval search plane which hits and sinks the sub.

Has anyone else seen this problem? Is it partiular to the US search planes or is it an AI issue that affects either player facing the AI?

I wonder if the ordinance carried by US search planes is better. Does the mavis carry a torpedo while on Naval Search or ASW?

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: matchwood

One thing I have noticed as Jap playing AI is that the US AI has fantastic luck with air attacks sinking Jap subs. I can have 7-8 ASW sightings and attacks on US subs with no hits. One sighting by a US naval search plane which hits and sinks the sub.

Has anyone else seen this problem? Is it partiular to the US search planes or is it an AI issue that affects either player facing the AI?

I wonder if the ordinance carried by US search planes is better. Does the mavis carry a torpedo while on Naval Search or ASW?

I've been getting pounded by Vals on naval search. Had about a half dozen hits scored on my subs evacuating Manila (2ndACR bombed Manila with KB instead of PH...over a dozen lost and another dozen in extremis) So no, don't see any difference between allied and axis airborne asw.

[Captain Cruft]

All planes will attack subs with bombs regardless of their primary loadout.

I think the sub crew experience level may be the reason the Japanese subs appear more vulnerable than the US ones. Have a look ...