Great warmovie!

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Sat Dec 29, 2001 4:22 am

Man I sure would like to compare our video libraries Bill.
Your numbers are about the same as mine only reverse order. I have more documentaries than films. But then I stopped getting war movies when they looked too Hollywood and not enough grit.

skyraider · Post by **skyraider** » Sat Dec 29, 2001 6:47 am

Cross Of Iron is a great movie. I thought some of the actors, such as Coburn and Mason, were way to old for their parts. still, I liked it. I read Willi Hedrich's book, which the film is based on, some time after I saw the movie. That's where I most of my opinion of the actors came from.

I have plenty of "fav" war movies. But here are a few: "Battleground", "Go tell the Spartans", "The Bridge", "Castle Keep", and "Kelly's Heroes".

Getting back to COI, if you haven't already, read the book.

Aggrajag · Post by **Aggrajag** » Sat Dec 29, 2001 7:51 am

I also love the Cross of Iron (I'm not much of a Peckinpah fan otherwise..) but does anyone here like Band of Brothers? I thought that was the kind style warmovies (and TV series in this case) should be like: very realistic, almost even naturalistic at some points and without the "USA is the greatest" kind of storytelling that Saving Private Ryan had. Comments from the older members are especially appreciated.

Oh, and I saw U-571 and Pearl Harbor for the first time on DVD yesterday. I am not sure what I should say but warmovies shouldn't be like those two are. First one rewrites history and the other one was just horrible (apart from the effects).

I haven't been in this board for a long time so have missed the comments about BoB. And this is my first post! Nice <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Charles2222 · Post by **Charles2222** » Sat Dec 29, 2001 8:11 am

skyraider: Mason's role was a general, was he not? There's been plenty of generals that age, if that's the role he was playing. As well, even Coburn's age wasn't too bad, because he was playing the role of a very grizzled veteran, and considering how the Germans came to fighting with men considerably older and younger than what they started out with, even that wasn't too terribly unlikely. Perhaps that's the reason the story also called for that very young private to enter their team, to show how the opposite ends of the age of soldiers started to be used more and more.

usmcbob · Post by **usmcbob** » Sat Dec 29, 2001 8:31 am

I was stationed at the American Embassy in Vienna Austria in 1979 when i think it was Stiener part 2 the Cross of Iron was filmed. The Marines all had parts in the movie as part of the German solders. The Marines a few days later played parts of American troops. Some even got to say a few lines. Never did get to see the movie as i returned to the states before the showing. We also had parts in the movie i think it was called "The boys from Brazil" about the secret cloning of Hitler look alikes.

BAR · Post by **BAR** » Sat Dec 29, 2001 8:50 am

Hi all - going to check out the Belle and Blades site soon, but have a question for all of you. We have been racking our brains these last 3 weeks for the name of the movie about the Huertgen Forest battles. Friends said that it was a fantastic take, but can't remember the name! Any help would be appreciated. Back to cleaning the Garand, have a match tommorrow. Thanks all.

Rick Borovec · Post by **Rick Borovec** » Sat Dec 29, 2001 10:38 am

Are you refering to the HBO Movie "A Time for Trumpets"?

asgrrr · Post by **asgrrr** » Sat Dec 29, 2001 10:54 am

Originally posted by Charles_22:
skyraider: Mason's role was a general, was he not?

Well, everything suggested he was commanding a regiment, hence a colonel.

"Steiner, why are you so ungrateful?"

Would you imagine this uttered at a general staff?

skyraider · Post by **skyraider** » Sat Dec 29, 2001 11:17 am

Charles_22: Mason was playing a colonel, the C.O. of Steiner's regiment. IIRC, in the book Steiner's and Colonel's friendship goes back to to when the colonel was a captain, about three years before. I got the impression from the book that they were still under 40. anyway, it's not the first time producers and directors change a book for the sake of their "vision."

I think that using older actors playing made some sense to the producers and the director at the time. The "experienced" look about them has the appearance through a war.

Anybody see a movie made in around '79 with Steiner played by Richard Burton and Robert Mitchum as a US Colonel? It wasn't very good.

tracer · Post by **tracer** » Sat Dec 29, 2001 1:24 pm

Oh man, now you've brought up a painful memory: I remember seeing that 'Steiner-2' movie, Breakthough, on HBO in the 80's. To tie that stinker in any way to Cross of Iron borders on sacrilege. That rediculous climax where the Germans tried to destroy the American tanks by luring them into a town square rigged with explosives...the screenwriter must have been on drugs <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

I *think* the ATG's they used in that scene were real 50mm PAKs, which is the only positive I can recall.

tracer · Post by **tracer** » Sat Dec 29, 2001 1:26 pm

Originally posted by BORO:
Are you refering to the HBO Movie "A Time for Trumpets"?

Close....'When Trumpets Fade'

Here's some info on it

I started a thread about it back in the spring, but I don't know if the 'search' function is working here.

[ December 29, 2001: Message edited by: tracer ]</p>

Charles2222 · Post by **Charles2222** » Sat Dec 29, 2001 7:22 pm

skyraider: Ah, didn't know that you were operating off of a book, and thought you were instead trying to say that the age of the men represented wasn't true-to-form with the German experience about that time.

Charles2222 · Post by **Charles2222** » Sat Dec 29, 2001 7:45 pm

Penetrator:

Would you imagine this uttered at a general staff?

Depends. If you recall Mason's dialogue, he sure was pretty unorthodox, but then again he didn't strike me as unorthodox as say a Rommel (The point is that since Rommel did recon on his own often enough, that I could see an unorthodox general relating to a man heading a recon squad to some degree [and Steiner also gave the impression that he was a man who could've easily been of a higher rank, but was not, probably because of rebelliousness against his superiors]. IOW it didn't strike me as too odd, particularly since he was so tired of the war, and thereby even if he were very orthodox before, he may had started slipping in more than just speaking against the common rah-rah attitude that the Major [or was he a captain?] displayed for instance). In any case, I don't remember much of the dialogue between Mason and Coburn. One unfortunate thing about my viewing of the movie, however, is that my recording stopped about the time Steiner had got out of the hospital. Then, some monthes later I saw the tail end of the movie, picking up about the time they ran into the Russian women as prisoners. As you can see, I may had missed the best part of the movie, the part with the T34s. ARGH!

Actually, for the parts I saw, I can't remember Mason and Coburn ever talking together (maybe once). It always seemed Steiner was out in the field, and whenever I saw Mason talking he was talking at HQ about the legend of Steiner and getting information from other people that Steiner had given them. In any case not too important, but that's the impression I had.

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Sat Dec 29, 2001 8:21 pm

Maybe the films are merely suffering from a severe case of painfully obvious choices and people are just avoiding mentioning them.

But just to be safe, any thread talking about war movies that doesnt say something nice about the Longest Day and A Bridge Too Far has missed out mentioning the two biggest, greatest, saturated in pure quality acting talent films ever made.

Yes I like those two.

They might not have material accuracy that would make even the most diehard critic glow, but I have yet to see a better film (maybe lots of equally good ones, but not better).

With regards to Band of Brothers. I have a friend that is going to get me a copy of it on cd (man there just has to be a god).

I intend to avoid Pearl Harbour the same way I would avoid a cheap Thai hooker. If given a tape of it for free, I would use it as a blank cassette and get better use out of it that way.

We have all seen war movies where every dang tank was surplus US armour, but has anyone ever seen a film using surplus British armour?.
Once long ago I watched one. Was actually amusingly different. Cant recall the title though. Was a desert location piece. All the armour was British in the same manner all the armour was US in so many films.

If anyone can recall the name of this title, I will gladly offer you congradulations.

wulfir · Post by **wulfir** » Sun Dec 30, 2001 7:48 am

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1:

But just to be safe, any thread talking about war movies that doesnt say something nice about the Longest Day and A Bridge Too Far has missed out mentioning the two biggest, greatest, saturated in pure quality acting talent films ever made.

Hear you loud and clear.

Personally I have always liked Gene Hackman as the Polish Parachute Brigade commander in A Bridge too Far…

“Tell your General we are coming…we are coming tonight.”

BvB · Post by **BvB** » Mon Dec 31, 2001 1:42 am

Yes, the movie COI will always be one of my favorites. First time I saw it was in a german theater. It was the most expensive war movie they'd made up until then. They even handed out a program of about 10 pages when you entered. Gave info on the making, and some other background info and stats on how much ammo, film blood, etc were used. It was supposed to take place in the area across from Crimea in '43. Mason was the Regt Cdr and amongst his decorations is one that shows him as a WWI vet, so that would make his age plausable. It was filmed in Yugoslavia, while the sequel was filmed partly in Italy and agree - it sucked. They only had two actors from the original - Anselm who gets killed in the opening scene and Kruger who gets killed in the end. The author of the original - Willi Heinrich, was a german east front infantry officer. The other book by him I read was called Crack of Doom and takes place in Czechoslovakia vs the Russians at the end of the war.
As for Sven Hassel: I read his books in high school and recall them as entertaining enough even if not always accurate or believable. One of his books was made into a movie, I think it was called the "Misfit Brigade". I think Oliver Reed was in it, but don't recall much else.
Other favorites of mine: Wild Geese with Richard Burton; Field of Honor (Korea); and I guess we could go on and on - so many!

KG Erwin · Post by **KG Erwin** » Mon Dec 31, 2001 2:40 am

Great subject. I always had mixed feelings about Cross of Iron as great movie-making, BUT I have to give kudos to Sam Peckinpah for his direction. To convey the horror of the Eastern Front, as well as draw sympathetic reactions to the Germans from your average Western audience is not an easy thing. I think this movie deserves a nod as a groundbreaker. Without it, films like "Das Boot" could never have been made.

KG Erwin · Post by **KG Erwin** » Mon Dec 31, 2001 2:57 am

There's another film I'm very fond of, and that's "Europa Europa". What do you think about that one?

ZinZan · Post by **ZinZan** » Mon Dec 31, 2001 3:03 am

Re: Cross of Iron

One of the first "modern"(i.e post 60's) WW2 movies I ever saw and still one of the best, I have always found it interesting that it was primarily a German film and was the first film I remember on general release about the Eastern front. On the subject of German films 'Das Boot@ has to be the best naval film.

RE: Band Of Brothers

I have to agree here, it was an amazing series, very gritty and realistic (so far as I could tell). In fact I got the book for Xmas (waited to buy it just in case <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> )and am looking forward to reading it.

Grenadier · Post by **Grenadier** » Mon Dec 31, 2001 4:55 am

Hi All,
Crooss of Iron is a great film, one of the best anti-war statements made.

Mason was a major in the film, Steiners batallion commander. he played a general in Blue Max and played Rommel in 2 films, Desert Fox and Raid on Rommel opposite Richard Burton.

The film takes place in the Kuban front in 1943. The book leaves it unclear if Steiner dies in the end but leads you to believe he does. Some of the editing is jagged, with some jarring camera cuts from Mason in his hq to Germans being cut down, making it appear as if it is happening right outside. The DVD of the film is a dissappointment, no extras and in pan & scan as opposed to letterbox.The German uniforms look like gebirgsjager and Willi Heinrich was in the 4th Gebirgsjager Division, but the Edelweiss is missing on the uniforms, but the Crimea Shield is present on the sleeves of Coburn & Mason.

There is another book by Heinrich besides Crack of Doom, Mark of Shame