Buildings in 8.2

[Cooper]

Thanks Harry! You have been a real inspiration to my map making over the last year. I really apppreciate your explanations of what works and what doesn't and why.

[RockinHarry]

ORIGINAL: Cooper

Thanks Harry! You have been a real inspiration to my map making over the last year. I really apppreciate your explanations of what works and what doesn't and why.

Glad to see at least a handful of people is interested in the matter! [8D] Not all is in vain![:D]

Cooper, if you have any findings or want anything to share related to Freds Map editor, just do! I´m listening and willing to discuss! [:)]

[Major_Johnson]

It's been my experience with Allied vehicles so far that 30-40% of the time I go through a building, my tank gets immobilized. Quite frustrating to say the least. I was just playing a scenario where between houses and terrain more than half my T-34s were out of the fight for most of the scenario. I've never tried going through a building with any other type of vehicle. And the repair time is extremely long, and allot of the times they never get repaired.

Also in one scenario my tank ran through a house (getting immobilized) rather than going around it. I haven't seen that issue in a couple of versions. and in that same scenario (which escapes me at the moment) I had vehicles going through buildings like they were traveling over regular terrain, meaning that the buildings stayed intact.

[m10bob]

Actually,I like the way tanks don't get immobilized as often as they used to.In early versions of SP,a 32 ton tank could throw a track darn near going thru high grass!!.It was just a real pain in the butt and very non-prototypical,so the designers stepped up and improved this..While it might be inconvenient for some,tanks really could go completely thru buildings,(which they often did to avoid a static AT ambush).
Compared to the early SP,I am also VERY happy with the graphics..(Used to be basically coloured boxes compared to what they look like now,and since a lot of the graphics are contributions of individual players whose ideas got adopted,I don't think I'll complain??[;)]

[BruceAZ_MatrixForum]

ORIGINAL: Warrior

ORIGINAL: Procrustes

I've griped about this a lot - I'm feeling that I must be pretty tiresome by this point [>:]. If there wasn't a way to keep the AI from plowing through building then I think it would have been better to simply deny AVF's from building hexes - like trucks are. It bugs me that a halftrack can rubble a stone building, and that a tank never falls through to the basement. The current implementation is awfully unrealistic and just adds to the "gamey" nature of PBEM.

I don't follow the Combat Leader forum - does anyone know what they are hoping to implement there?

I agree with you, it's too easy to go through stone walls, bocage & buildings. There should be more immob's, it would improve everyone's driving. [:D]

Steve, I agree with you that a slight improvement is needed. If we are at 5%, maybe 10% or 20% is in order. However, this is for another day as it will require more than I think Matrix is prepared to give right now.

Recon
Semper Fi

[RockinHarry]

here´s some excerpt from the update.pdf file included with SPWAW versions up to V7.1:

A new option, “VEHICLE BREAKDOWNS” has been added. If on, this simulates engine
overheating, tracks slipping off the bogie, flat tires, transmission failures and other malfunctions
that could cause immobility in a vehicle. A number of factors are included in the determination of
vehicle breakdowns, including the type of terrain, the unit maximum and current speed, the
experience of the crew, the date and nationality of the vehicle. Breakdowns should occur least in
for a late model American vehicle driving at two thirds or less speed on a flat paved road. The
chances increase when the terrain is rough, wooded or containing other difficult terrain, such as
shell holes, without a road in the hex. The also increase at high speeds. Crew experience
makes a substantial difference in the chance. Americans have the most reliable vehicles,
followed by countries of the British Commonwealth, the Germans, the Finns, the Soviets, the
Italians, the Japanese, the 1940 French army and other minor powers. Starting in January of
1942, the French using American vehicles use the American reliability charts. The Germans
suffer a sharp decline in reliability after 1943. Soviets reliability improves steadily after 1942.
Immobilized vehicles will now attempt to repair the damage each turn. In order to make the
attempt, the crew must be in the vehicle and not buttoned up or have any suppression. Since
immobilization damage can be as simple as a loose spark plug wire or as complex and time
consuming as replacing tracks, which can take hours, repair times will vary. Usually, however, it
will take an average of 20 turns for an experienced crew to affect repairs. The player will be
informed when repairs are completed. Since the repairing unit must be at zero suppression, this
will allow even a single machine gun or infantry squad to keep repairs from taking place by firing
every turn at the vehicle and pinning the crew inside.

Introduced: V4.0

Vehicle breakdown chance is halved.

Introduced: V4.1

Reduced vehicle breakdown chances by one-third and weapon breakdown by half. Also
increased chance of repair for both (weapon more so than vehicle).

Introduced: V5.0

I think it explains why at times vehicles get "stuck" (actually broke down) even on roads, while others smash through buildings without scratching the paint! Personally I would like to have back the increased breakdown chances from earlier SPWAW versions. However, the best way to satisfy all gamers probably would have been to add a "Breakdown chance" slider to the Preferences menu. By now we only have Breakdown off or on and we have to live with it as is unfortunately.[:(]

[Major_Johnson]

ORIGINAL: RockinHarry

here´s some excerpt from the update.pdf file included with SPWAW versions up to V7.1:

Americans have the most reliable vehicles,
followed by countries of the British Commonwealth, the Germans, the Finns, the Soviets, the
Italians, the Japanese, the 1940 French army and other minor powers. Starting in January of
1942, the French using American vehicles use the American reliability charts. The Germans
suffer a sharp decline in reliability after 1943. Soviets reliability improves steadily after 1942.
Immobilized vehicles will now attempt to repair the damage each turn. In order to make the
attempt, the crew must be in the vehicle and not buttoned up or have any suppression. Since
immobilization damage can be as simple as a loose spark plug wire or as complex and time
consuming as replacing tracks, which can take hours, repair times will vary. Usually, however, it
will take an average of 20 turns for an experienced crew to affect repairs.

Reduced vehicle breakdown chances by one-third and weapon breakdown by half. Also
increased chance of repair for both (weapon more so than vehicle).

I have yet to see a gun get repaired in any version of the game. Kind of sux when your heavy tank is nothing but an expensive infantry transport since first or second turn of a 25 turn scenario. And in my opinion the repair time is way too long. And the Soviets got better reliability after 1942?? What version is that?? None that I've ever played.

[Cooper]

I've been playing around with those invisible AT obstacles. Very useful for a number of things. Keeping vehicles out of buildings, streams, stonewalls, allowing engineers to "bridge" streams and AT trenches. Thanks Harry, you did a great job on this.

[RockinHarry]

ORIGINAL: Cooper

I've been playing around with those invisible AT obstacles. Very useful for a number of things. Keeping vehicles out of buildings, streams, stonewalls, allowing engineers to "bridge" streams and AT trenches. Thanks Harry, you did a great job on this.

thanks to Matrix Games for offering Mod Swapper, thus making easy little mods like that possible![8D]

I think I´ll try combine the invisible (dragon teeth) AT obstacle with with the entrenchement icon used by Panzer Leo for H2H mod. I really hate these sandbag graphics....[8|]

[Belisarius]

ORIGINAL: Major_Johnson


I have yet to see a gun get repaired in any version of the game. Kind of sux when your heavy tank is nothing but an expensive infantry transport since first or second turn of a 25 turn scenario. And in my opinion the repair time is way too long. And the Soviets got better reliability after 1942?? What version is that?? None that I've ever played.

Play more. [;)] I've had main gun repairs on numerous occasions. The ones I remember most are the ones when they get back "online" just at the right time, when the tank is alone and facing an enemy tank. *zap* Gun works! BLAM

[RockinHarry]

ORIGINAL: Major_Johnson

ORIGINAL: RockinHarry

here´s some excerpt from the update.pdf file included with SPWAW versions up to V7.1:

Americans have the most reliable vehicles,
followed by countries of the British Commonwealth, the Germans, the Finns, the Soviets, the
Italians, the Japanese, the 1940 French army and other minor powers. Starting in January of
1942, the French using American vehicles use the American reliability charts. The Germans
suffer a sharp decline in reliability after 1943. Soviets reliability improves steadily after 1942.
Immobilized vehicles will now attempt to repair the damage each turn. In order to make the
attempt, the crew must be in the vehicle and not buttoned up or have any suppression. Since
immobilization damage can be as simple as a loose spark plug wire or as complex and time
consuming as replacing tracks, which can take hours, repair times will vary. Usually, however, it
will take an average of 20 turns for an experienced crew to affect repairs.

Reduced vehicle breakdown chances by one-third and weapon breakdown by half. Also
increased chance of repair for both (weapon more so than vehicle).

I have yet to see a gun get repaired in any version of the game. Kind of sux when your heavy tank is nothing but an expensive infantry transport since first or second turn of a 25 turn scenario. And in my opinion the repair time is way too long. And the Soviets got better reliability after 1942?? What version is that?? None that I've ever played.

Major_Johnson, we´re speaking of "Vehicle Breakdown", not "Weapon Breakdown" which are two different things! [X(]

here´s what I digged up from the manual:


• Weapon Reliability – Unit weapons may breakdown when being used. If a player uses a
lot of Op Fire this can increase the chance of their weapons breaking down. Some
weapons can be repaired during the game. All breakdowns are also affected by a country
equipment modifier that can increase or decrease the chance of breakdown. A Unit's
experience can also improve repair time of a damaged weapon.

Would like to know what the "country equipment modifier" looks like, but I suspect it´s similar to the one used for "vehicle breakdown" used maybe?[&:]

If "weapon breakdown" appears too high, just switch it off in preferences. A chance slider would have come handy though.

[Wild Bill]

Having worked on SPWAW since before it even existed, I've been down a long road. For those who have been around since that time (not many left now), you might remember that early on we had a real problem with vehicles just running into buildings and never dodging them.

At that time the breakdown possibility was right at 100%. Michael Wood and I discussed this for hours, by e-mail and by phone. We finally worked out some compromise. With a lot of work, Michael was able to program into the AI the route chossing that would usually take tanks and other vehicles around buildings.

But in case it did happen (Stupid blind driver!) or if you chose to do so, the breakdown possibilities were reduced to 50% or less. At that time, soft-skinned vehicles had a much higher breakdown value. I don't drive vehicles into buildings. It is just not realistic. And I've noticed that the AI rarely does so, UNLESS a scenario designer erroneously puts objective hexes inside a building hex.

Scenario designers. Don't do that! Put the objective hex next to the buildings, not in them, please!

One last point. True, the graphic of the building takes up the entire hex or nearly all of it, except in the case of mult-hexed buildings. Here again the scenario designer must use care and make sure that a building hex that contains part of a multi-hexed building but only occupies less than 50% of that hex should clear that hex of the building attributes.

So remember, a hex represents about 50 yards or meters. That is a big space. So in reality the building does not cover the entire hex, nor does the tank, even though graphically they do so.

You might consider the tank driving through the hex as going around that building, unless he crushes it of course [;)]. You can't deny that one.

Limits in a game. They all have them.

Wild Bill