Something to Think about when Designing Scenarios

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Fri Dec 28, 2001 4:05 am

These are perhaps only my thoughts and you can take them or leave them.

Having done quite a bit of scenario design, I have a few ideas based on public reaction. I have stated these before but let's do it again. Just my personal conclusions.

1. The majority of gamers are quiet. Many never visit a web site. They just play. Occasionally I get a letter from one of these good folks. It is 98 percent good stuff. I appreciate those. They are the ones who keep gaming companies in business.

The noise makers are usually a vocifercous minority <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

2. Many of these folks are not deep into history or are the authority on the subject that many of you are. They are not really greatly concerned whether or not it was No 3 Company or No 2.

3. They are busy folks. They have, like all of us, a hectic lifestyle, work, family, home, proglems. They, therefore, tend toward smaller, shorter, simpler battles.

Keep those three "S" in mind when you design: short, simple, small.

They like something they can play between coming in from work and supper, or a battle they can finish between kissing the kiddies goodnight and crashing themselves.

4. Many gamers are intimidated by LARGE scenarios. Show them 60 turns with 200 or more units and they'll probably pass it by. They look for a battle they can finish in one night.

5. With that in mind you must decide, "Do I want to impress a few with my monster scenario?" or..."Do I want a lot of people to try this battle?" You'll almost (I said almost) be certain to get one or the other, depending on how big your battle is.

6. As to historicity, a long, long standing argument. I've gone up and down with folks over this for years. Even with CMBO we got into a looong discussion on "What is historical?" To be absolutely historical, you'll need to know how many trees were in the area exactly! Also how much ammunition each unit had, the name of each leader you use, and a ton of other facts that you'll never find.

So, best to aim for broadly historical, or semi-historical, or loosely based on history. That way you will not get gray hair or lose your mind trying to be so exact only to have someone post later, "But there were three Tigers in that battle, not four!" Or, "there were 8 men in that squad, not 6!"

What I am trying to say is keep a balance. Make your battle "historical" with attention to detail, but make it FUN! If it ain't fun, people will have a bad taste in their mouth from playing it and will probably avoid any others on the CD with your name on it.

Senseless jabberings of an old veteran wargamer. Do with it as you will. I wish you all great success in your design efforts! I really mean that!

Wild Bill

Warrior · Post by **Warrior** » Fri Dec 28, 2001 4:53 am

Originally posted by Wild Bill:

3. They are busy folks. They have, like all of us, a hectic lifestyle, work, family, home, proglems. They, therefore, tend toward smaller, shorter, simpler battles.

Keep those three "S" in mind when you design: short, simple, small.

They like something they can play between coming in from work and supper, or a battle they can finish between kissing the kiddies goodnight and crashing themselves.

Well, I'm out of luck. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> I count on people playing a scenario in segments, not all at once.

Tombstone · Post by **Tombstone** » Fri Dec 28, 2001 5:25 am

It's ok Warrior. I realize the scenarios I'm working on will be played by a meagre few. I'll play your scenarios, and so will the other hardcore SPWAW players out there... It's a choice you make at the beginning of the design phase. Fun for all, or fun for me. Some people have the BIG BIG BIG bug in their head... I'm one of them. WB's comments are all 100% true, but I'm hoping that those casual gamers will eventually want something massive and utterly challenging. Luckily for them they will have WB momo's and a handful of other scenarios to keep them busy. Hey Warrior, did I send you any of my Kursk scenarios??

Tomo

sebagonzalez · Post by **sebagonzalez** » Fri Dec 28, 2001 5:39 am

There´s a Wide Market out there, with various tastes to make every new scenario count. Well, this actually happends to all kinds of Art, and scenario design is an Art, a silicon art but Art anyway.

Warrior · Post by **Warrior** » Fri Dec 28, 2001 9:25 am

Originally posted by Tombstone:
It's ok Warrior. I realize the scenarios I'm working on will be played by a meagre few. I'll play your scenarios, and so will the other hardcore SPWAW players out there... It's a choice you make at the beginning of the design phase. Fun for all, or fun for me. Some people have the BIG BIG BIG bug in their head... I'm one of them. WB's comments are all 100% true, but I'm hoping that those casual gamers will eventually want something massive and utterly challenging. Luckily for them they will have WB momo's and a handful of other scenarios to keep them busy. Hey Warrior, did I send you any of my Kursk scenarios??

Tomo

Funny you should mention all this, Tomo, cause when I started playing I only wanted to fight the small ones. But as I got more experienced at the game, my taste changed to the larger battles. I try to design small scenarios, but they almost always seem to expand as they develop. I do have a strict 30 turn limit, and most are less than that, but on the other hand, I have no limit on the number of units except what the game forces on me. I use what I need to make a good fight. (And I like to put in lots of different types of weapons, etc., to spice things up.)

Have your Kursk scenarios been posted anywhere? If so, I have them, but may not have had a chance to play them yet. If not posted, send them, I like have every scenario available, and I know yours are good... and BIG - I remember North of the Psel! <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> Speaking of which, I should play that again in v7 and see what happens.) Your comment about designing for yourself is right on. I do the same, and hope that if I like it others will, too.

[ December 27, 2001: Message edited by: Warrior ]</p>

skukko · Post by **skukko** » Fri Dec 28, 2001 12:29 pm

I like to design scenarios and campaigns that suprise and amuse me. I like to do them so that I love to play them, again and again. (Like a good book) Its not about size but how to use it <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

About historical and hysterical; quite well said WB <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

mosh

achappelle · Post by **achappelle** » Fri Dec 28, 2001 9:05 pm

Thanks WB. I've been on the sidelines for years enjoying all the great scens yourself and others have created. Now I'm going to take your advice to heart, and the lessons from other posts and start building some scens based on the Canadian Scheldt Campaign. Maybe I can repay you guys for all the enjoyment you've given me.

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Sun Dec 30, 2001 5:08 pm

Great Alek! We can use them. Not a lot has been donein that area. I look forward to them.

To bolster Warrior's words, nothing wrong with big scenarios. I've done a few myself in my day, as some of you know I maxed out SPWAW twice, once on the Bulge (Scenario Steel Shield) and North Africa (El ALamein)-Used every available space for a tank, gun or infantry unit.

So I like 'em I like to play 'em. I like to design 'em. In a good mix there should probably be one in every five or so. Nothing like the bigger picture. That is why I fought so hard to make SPWAW bigger, to hold and use more units. And you can have nearly regimental sized ones if you wish. So both have a definite place in the SPWAW scenario selections.

Having said that, now I'll go play a quickie, Ramelle-Saving Private Ryan...one more time <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

Wild Bill

chiphart · Post by **chiphart** » Tue Jan 01, 2002 12:10 am

This topic touches on an important issue that I accidentally raised recently and haven't resolved properly:

Where ARE the best places to post scenarios?

I've made a silly little scenario with an absolutely horrifying understanding of history (unless you like Godzilla movies) and I'd love to share it with people, only if they open it and play the first few turns.

However, short of adding to my personal WWW site, there isn't a good, general purpose scenario depot out there any more. As we see in this thread, there are some QUALITY scenarios floating around, but we often don't get to play them because they're too hard to find.

Where are people posting their scens?

Thanks

Omegaunit · Post by **Omegaunit** » Tue Jan 01, 2002 1:52 am

Wild Bill I think thats the best advice I've gotten and I think the three "S" are exactly what I look for in the battles I play

wmosner · Post by **wmosner** » Tue Jan 01, 2002 6:25 pm

This is just a big thank you to all you scenario designers. I am one on the quiet ones Wild Bill was talking about, although I do know history. As long as I have a save button, keep the long scenarios coming. I can get immersed in these war games the same way as a good long book.

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Wed Jan 02, 2002 10:56 pm

That has always been my personal passion, to recreate the "feeling" of the moment, to do a step back in time.

When I was a kid, Walter Cronkite hosted a show that was on for some years, titled, "You Are There." Each program simplified and presented a reenactment of an historic event. I loved it.

That has always been my goal, to make you feel like "You Are There." I want that feeling in the battles I do, the hard choices for a commander, the stress of combat and decision making, the pressure of doing the right thing and taking the victory with as few losses as possible.

I lose men, I groan...often loudly! I lose a tank, I wail. I feel losses. I take an objective, I sometimes jump to my feet, whooping and hollering! My wife understands. She shakes her head and keeps doing what she is doing.

I guess if I ever have a heart attack, she'll think I'm having a hard time winning a battle <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

Small or large, and they ALL have a place in the scenario repertoire, good scenarios with a sound historical flavor are always the best to design and to play.

As for posting, the Scenario Depot is now up and running. It should be used more, publicized more and enjoyed more. There are many support sites that have scenarios too. The most prolific with the biggest selection to date is Fabio Prado's Armor site. But there are others.

Now I know I'm going to leave some out, since this list is old. If I do, forgive me, and please jump in and mention your site. Richard the First has one as do some others.

Fabio Prado's SPWAW Website
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/sp_waw.htm

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Bonzo's Web site
http://nwbattalion.tripod.com/

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Sarge's Web Site
http://www.geocities.com/aurion_eq/index.html

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Wild Bill's Raiders Site
http://www.militarygameronline.com/raiders/

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SP Arsenal Site
http://www.militarygameronline.com/steelpanthers/

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Pac Rat's Site
http://electricwar.tripod.com/

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Irish's SPWAW Site
http://giz-spwaw.tripod.com/

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Double Deuce's SPWAW Site
http://www.aspmall.com/ddmain/

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Red Baron's Web Site
http://www.geocities.com/michaelnils/

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Fred Chlanda
http://blake.prohosting.com/fchlanda/

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E-Citizen's Web Site
http://www.ectopia.net/~ectizen/

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Sinner from the Prairie

http://www.geocities.com/sinner_prairy/index2_en.html

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Wild Bill

chiphart · Post by **chiphart** » Thu Jan 03, 2002 7:34 pm

Thanks for the info, WB. I'd not found some of those sites before (most of them don't yet show up in normal google searches, for example). I grabbed a dozen or so new scens for myself to play with at work (cough cough).

I'd uploaded a scen to the depot weeks ago and hadn't seen it available - there isn't anything there newer than July? However, others report that it's now active, so I hope to see others up there as well, soon.

As always, thanks for your generous help.

Redleg · Post by **Redleg** » Fri Jan 04, 2002 12:13 am

Check http://redleg.homestead.com/

There are 13 Version 7 scenarios posted. Soon this "dirty dozen" will be replaced by the second selection of twelve (or 13) new and different Version 7 scenarios.