Hard Lessons

[Dr. Foo]

Well I have read the manual and have been reading heavily on this forum; therefore, I should have known better, but still I made a huge error in my opening strategy.

One of the things that I really like about this game is the detail and the lack of abstract concepts. (Ok ground combat is rather abstract, but as others have pointed out this is mostly a naval sim).

Take The Operational Art of War as an example. This is hands-down the greatest operational land combat sim out there. However, unlike WITP many concepts in TOAOW are abstract. If I move a unit from point A to point B it is assumed that everything they need moves with them. The support elements are organic and will not detach. You may model HQ units to effect supply distribution, but you will get none of the disastrous effects seen in WITP. Also, air units in TOAOW are self-supporting, when I move an air unit all its support moves with it; which is where I ran into trouble in WITP.

My plan was to evacuate Mindanao PI of it air groups and support elements.

Turn 1. I transferred the B-17's to CenPac and sent them to Aus. Next, I did the same with the support elements and boarded them on the AK's

Turn 2. Five B-17's sit there and are listed as repairing troops boarding.

Turn 3. Five B-17's sit there and are listed as repairing troops boarding.

Turn 4. Five B-17's sit there and are listed as repairing troops boarding.

Turn 5. Five B-17's sit there and are listed as repairing troops moving to Aus.

Turn 6. Five B-17's sit there and are listed as repairing. Aruggggggg! By know I realize that the planes will not do anything without crews to fuel, repair, and prep the planes.

Turn 7. RESTART!

I should have know, but I treated the game as if these concepts where abstract and not real world. I will not make the same mistake again…just different ones. [:)]

[mogami]

Hi, You restarted over 5xB-17C?

[Dr. Foo]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, You restarted over 5xB-17C?

No not really I am just trying to complete a Turn 1 strategy and then save it. That way I can play a new Champaign with turn one complete, or if I need to start over I can do so without the first turn headaches.

I am still very much in a experimental phase right now just figuring out how everything works.
[&o]

[mogami]

ORIGINAL: Dr. Foo

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, You restarted over 5xB-17C?

No not really I am just trying to complete a Turn 1 strategy and then save it. That way I can play a new Champaign with turn one complete, or if I need to start over I can do so without the first turn headaches.

I am still very much in a experimental phase right now just figuring out how everything works.
[&o]

Hi, I never playered TOAOW. (I have something against Talonsoft but I don't know what since I've never bought one of their products)

How can a game be Operations? but then abstract all the the Operational detail? Operations are not just sending force from point A to point B. Operations are arranging that the supply and support are provided. Where does supply come from in TOAOW? Is it on map or one of those games where you just need to trace a line from one place to another?

[Dr. Foo]

Yes, there are on map supply depots where a unit may draw supply from and HQ units may extend the supply range of that hex. Also, just because a unit is drawing supply from a hex that does not mean it is doing so efficiently, An HQ within supply range, usually 9 hexes, can more efficiently distribute that supply to units in need of supply.

The support elements are present in the game they are just within the formation organization (depending on the scenario). Therefore, if I move the 1st Marine Division from Hawaii to Aus. All its support elements move with it. However, with the scenario editor, you may create formations consisting of a Div HQ, Div Arty, and subsequent brigades along with any other support elements you desire making moving a division a large and costly undertaking. Some scenarios are already modeled like this. Sea, rail and air transport point's dictate how many and how often troops may move in this fashion.

The big difference is that as long as a unit has a supply point to draw from it will be able to perform operations regardless if its parent HQ is present or not. Supply points do not need to be replenished nor will they cease to function (depending on the scenario). Again, with the scenario editor you can model it so supplies run out or cause supply shortages effecting operations (If that happened in real life or you wish it to happen in your scenario).

The game was never meant to depict years of combat operations (although many fan made scenarios deal with just that). The game was meant to simulate operation lasting from a few days, weeks, or months. This way issues such as supplies are not as important because the scenario will begin on the first day of operations and sustain supply throughout the scenario. Such as, if you are playing a D-Day scenario that begins on June 6, 1944 your supplies for the operation are in place. However, it can be modeled (and is in the D-day scenario) that if the player does not caputre key ports by a certain day, supply points will fall limiting operations.

I hope I did not ramble on for too long.[:D]

[mogami]

Hi, Thanks. Yes WITP you have to do everything from the ground up because you control the entire force for your side from start to finish. In the short scenarios of WITP much of the staff work has already been done. (units and supply/fuel moved to bases in Operation Area) In the long Campaigns you have to do everything. All you have is the prewar efforts shown at start.