Hari-Kari?

tracer · Post by **tracer** » Sat Jan 05, 2002 11:49 pm

I'm having a problem with JA INF units not op-firing vs adjacent armor...ever; it seems that once fired upon they simply 'die in place'. I understand JA INF have special characteristics in SPWAW (never retreat), but how do I get them to act like every other country's INF, that is, occaisionally fire back at armor if they have shots remaining? Notice I'm saying 'have shots remaining', so their supression is not very high.

I've used them a number of times recently in PBEM games and noticed another odd tendency: they'll get suppressed to say 13 (status=pinned) and still have shots remaining; I'll hit the rally button and successfully reduce their suppression to 6 (or even down to 1): they now have *no* shots remaining. I even see this same behavior with engineers squads that have plenty of flame and satchel ammo left. Its like they're brave enough to not retreat, brave enough to rally, but suddenly have become pacifists and refuse to fire at the enemy <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

I was playing a PBEM turn last night and had an Italian (i.e., less 'robust') INF unit that was routed and surrounded by INF and armor. After successfully (surprised!) rallying them they fired on and hit an adjacent tank; a couple units op-fired at them but I again successfully (really suprised!) rallied them and they had more shots...this never happens with JA INF.

Am I maybe purchasing the wrong type of JA INF? Even though their weapons seem the same, are there some JA INF units that are better at dealing with enemy armor, say marines (SNLF) or A squads?

Figmo · Post by **Figmo** » Sun Jan 06, 2002 2:43 am

I've never had this problem and don't know that much about the JA infantry. But there are some real experts out there that will be testing this so I'll bump the thread up for you so they can reply.

BUMP!!

RichardTheFirst · Post by **RichardTheFirst** » Sun Jan 06, 2002 6:09 am

I'm playing PBEM with the japs but I'm still at v6.1 because some PBEM opponents didn't upgrade yet. Now I'll be very attentive to this thread.

tracer · Post by **tracer** » Sun Jan 06, 2002 7:08 am

Originally posted by RichardTheFirst:
I'm playing PBEM with the japs but I'm still at v6.1 because some PBEM opponents didn't upgrade yet. Now I'll be very attentive to this thread.

I saw the same things happen under 6.1, and I think an earlier version too. Not saying this is a problem, but if you are playing as the JA make sure you buy plenty of AT guns (the tank hunters always seem to be out of stock with rarity on).

(and sorry about the spelling...I know now the correct way is 'Harry Carey') <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

skukko · Post by **skukko** » Sun Jan 06, 2002 3:33 pm

This behavior was found during tests that were run while 5.0 --7th versions were under work. It was noted and I quess that someone even tried to figure out what caused it. But No, we couldn't get rid of it.

While Japs are in human hands they are most of the time ok. At AIs hands, well I am not first to start generated campaign against them... This was bloody question while Operation Watchtower was under design. I think we managed to go around this problems 98%.

mosh

ZinZan · Post by **ZinZan** » Sun Jan 06, 2002 6:42 pm

ARRRRGGGHHHHHH is all I can say <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

I am playing as Japanese on Combat Command and have just noticed this exact problem today. I am playing an opponent who is using a lot of armour and he is running tanks adjacent to my INF regularly now, I've never seen them OPfire once yet. It has played havoc with my tactics as I used engineers as my main line of defence once I realised how much armour he has. I have also noticed that the tank hunters don't OPfire either (and die really quick too). The downside to this is that the Japanese tanks seem quite poor (realistically so) and have zero to no chance vs the Shermans. I noted previously that the tanks and AT guns have very few shots (2 seems max) and seemingly recover suppression slower than the INF.

Oh well, looks like there is very little we can do about it. Seems strange that it only affects Japanese INF, I would imagine this coding is identical to other nations. Though I know even less than my cat about game coding. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

tracer · Post by **tracer** » Sun Jan 06, 2002 9:32 pm

Yup, I was wrong yesterday: this *IS* a problem. Today I'm playing the next turn of that PBEM game and things have degraded into the 'ridiculous' category. I have one SNLF squad that was fired on by a tank last turn from 2 hexes away and was heavily suppressed; due to drifting smoke it now has NO enemy within its LOS...I rallied it down to 1 but it has no shots and no movement. Had another with 1 tank adjacent to it and suppression of 14 (plenty of shots for all weapons)...clicked on the tank to have them fire at it (knew that they would not assault it): they did *not* fire, their suppression did not go up, but the tank op-fired at them.

I guess I missed previous posts informing us that the JA INF was broken and should not be used. Also apologize to my opponents in the 2 PBEM games I set up involving JA troops: I'll set up new, non-JA battles and send them off today.

RichardTheFirst · Post by **RichardTheFirst** » Mon Jan 07, 2002 2:52 am

Thinking better, I think my SNLF* infantry didn't op-fire too against Sherman Flames but never noticed that ammo problem and I have many Tank Hunters and Suicide AT. Will try to be more attentive.

But OK it is not a v7.0 problem. I'm more relaxed.

Lars · Post by **Lars** » Mon Jan 07, 2002 4:03 am

I've seen this happen with other units too. I've rallied them down to 1, but still they don't have any movement or shots to fire.
Then when I looked at their status (down in left hand corner), it said "retreating" instead of "redy", and when I finished my turn, they really did retreat.

When it comes to JA INF they can't retreat, so the problem probably is more significant with these units. My units where German and when they had retreated they rallied back again, and I could use them normally again.

I hope this can help you in any way
/Lars

RichardTheFirst · Post by **RichardTheFirst** » Mon Jan 07, 2002 5:53 am

Lars: I had some units retreating but they were in fire hexs. I rally them to 1 but they were still retreating.

lnp4668 · Post by **lnp4668** » Mon Jan 07, 2002 8:24 pm

Japanese units seems to sit and die in flame hex for some reason. Even if you rally them till suppression of 0, they still can't move or fire.

Lars · Post by **Lars** » Mon Jan 07, 2002 9:16 pm

RTF: Yes that's exactly the problem... You push the rally-button and the suppression points decrease, but the point is; they don't change their stance. <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
When this happens to other units BUT Japanese, they retreat and regain their ready status.
The only thing that might help things up would be to move a HQ unit in to an adjacent hex. I haven't tried it, but it maybe can help rallying your unit even if it's in a hex on fire.

/Lars