Question about more than 1 TF in a hex

[Dereck]

If I have two, or more, task forces in the same hex are their anti-aircraft totals combined together or not?

[rogueusmc]

no, only one TF gets attacked at any given time.

[mogami]

Hi, But consider this. Any air attack will only be directed at a single TF. To hit more then 1 TF in a hex the attacking aircraft have to form 2 smaller strikes (or more) CAP over the TF is combined. If you have 3 TF with 2 CV each you have a combined CAP like a 6 CV TF but only 2 CV can be hit by any 1 strike. When you have the escorts and leaders it is better to have more then 1 TF compared to 1 giant TF. Strikes launched from the multi TF force in the same (or nearby) hexes will still be a combined strike. (provided they are only attacking a single enemy TF) The final result is you attack like a single TF. Your CAP defends like a single TF but you are targeted like multi TF.
Very often Allied players fall victim to placing their CV in a single TF rather then having a TF for every CV. THe only reason for using CV in a single TF is lack of escrts. The Japanese begin the war with that single monster but it is to their advantage to break it down into 3x2CV TF as soon as they can provide the escorts.

[rogueusmc]

He was asking about AA in one TF helping with the attack on another TF though.

[Mr.Frag]

Correct, they don't aid, but then again ... having the strike cut in half to attack two targets means the AA does not have to be as effective.

[mogami]

Hi, Yes I understood. And my answer is it is better to have more TF presenting fewer targets then it is to have increased AA in any one of them. This becomes important because it still only requires the same aircover for protecting 3 TF compared to 1.

Believe me. Much of the "Deathstar" comes from putting every ship into a single TF. You have more AA fire now but you allow the enemy to mass into larger strikes.
AA fire does not change because of the number of attacking aircraft. But CAP is much more effective fighting smaller strikes and this in turn lowers the need for AA in TF since fewer attackers will be coming in at once.

Still the TF should contain as much support as can be provided. 2 weak TF might be worse then 1 decent TF. There is more then 1 threat out there.

I have a simple formula. For every CV a BB/CA for every BB/CA 2 DD for every 4 DD a CL
So I get USN aircombat TF that look like this.

CV
BB
CA
CL
4 DD

if I have more I add more but if I had enough to make 2 of the above I would do that before making a
2CV
2BB (CA)
2 CL
8 DD

The AA is doubled but the enemy strikes are also doubled.

[Twotribes]

Why would you put an american BB in a CV group? At start none of them go faster than 21 knots. And they sure dont add much AA before upgrading.

I do put BB in British Carrier groups cause the Hermes is so fricking slow.

[mogami]

Hi, Before you have fast BB use CA instead.

[rogueusmc]

I agree with you, I just thought you misunderstood...my bad.

[Tankerace]

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Why would you put an american BB in a CV group? At start none of them go faster than 21 knots. And they sure dont add much AA before upgrading.

I do put BB in British Carrier groups cause the Hermes is so fricking slow.

Because in 1943 the US North Carolina, South Dakota, and especially the Iowas make perfect carrier escorts. And even though slow, those old BBs by 43 and 44 can pack some heat in terms of AA armament.

[Dereck]

The US Iowa class battleships DID have the speed to keep up with carriers. But they didn't reach the fleet until 1944 I believe.

I know in the old Pacific War game I always used to put the Iowa class battleships in a carrier TF to up the anti-aircraft. I always had plenty of slower battleships I could use for shore bombardment and really liked the extra A-A they provided.

[TEP]

Mogami,
Thanks for the info in this thread on organizing CV groups...
For a raw newbie (i.e. me), that is purest gold [&o]

[Captain Cruft]

Another thing to consider when forming combat TFs. Speed differentials.

Max Speed:

5-9 kts = 1 hex
10-14 kts = 2 hexes
15-19 kts = 3 hexes
20-24 kts = 4 hexes
25-29 kts = 5 hexes
30+ kts = 6 hexes

So, for example if you have a fast BB that does 27 kts which you want to accompany a CV that does 34 kts you are only losing 1 hex movement even though the differential is 7 kts.

[Mr.Frag]

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

Another thing to consider when forming combat TFs. Speed differentials.

Max Speed:

5-9 kts = 1 hex
10-14 kts = 2 hexes
15-19 kts = 3 hexes
20-24 kts = 4 hexes
25-29 kts = 5 hexes
30+ kts = 6 hexes

So, for example if you have a fast BB that does 27 kts which you want to accompany a CV that does 34 kts you are only losing 1 hex movement even though the differential is 7 kts.

True, but also remember, TF's move at cruise speeds of 3 hexes normally unless you want to get somewhere in a hurry. Also keep in mind, most of the BB's have huge fuel reserves which can save your bacon when other ships run low.

[Djordje]

[quote]ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, But consider this. Any air attack will only be directed at a single TF. To hit more then 1 TF in a hex the attacking aircraft have to form 2 smaller strikes (or more) CAP over the TF is combined. If you have 3 TF with 2 CV each you have a combined CAP like a 6 CV TF but only 2 CV can be hit by any 1 strike. When you have the escorts and leaders it is better to have more then 1 TF compared to 1 giant TF. Strikes launched from the multi TF force in the same (or nearby) hexes will still be a combined strike. (provided they are only attacking a single enemy TF) The final result is you attack like a single TF. Your CAP defends like a single TF but you are targeted like multi TF.

---

Am I the only one that thinks this is not quite as it should be? In real life these divided mini strikes against numerous task forces in the same "hex" would be launched at the same time, they would arrive at their target at the same time, and they would then proceed to attack those numerous task forces individually. But those TFs under attack would have to defend themselves with only their own CAP, as other TFs' CAP would be busy dealing with their own threats. Only CAP from those TFs that are not under direct attack (if any) would be able to reinforce the others.
So, if enemy in one hex has 4 TFs with CVs, and my attack is divided in 3 strikes (for some reason commander decides to attack only 3 TFs), only the CAP from the 4th TF that is not under attack would be able to help other TFs.
The way it is now, my planes would get divided in 3 separate mini strikes, they would not go together, but would wait for one to get eaten by combined enemy CAP, then the other mini strike would take off to be eaten again, and then the third wave... After that massacre is finished enemy monster strike would hit my fleet... So much about surprise advantage .
Of course I could split my own forces into several TFs for same reason, and the final result of the huge carrier battle would be most of the aircraft destroyed, not a single ship hit, so let's go home to replenish and try again...