The price

[Marc von Martial]

ORIGINAL: molotov_billy

$60 for a single downloadable scenario and another scenario that I've already played 3-4 times. Ouch

What happens if I don't like that particular scenario?

I can't think of any other game that spends the time to build an entire engine and then hinges the success of it on a single experience. I hated the main scenario in Korsun Pocket, and I got burned because of it. I could see the potential for the engine, but just had zero interest in the main battle. Perhaps if Matrix purchased some of these great user-made scenarios and ported them to the new engine for inclusion in the release.. but to ask $60 for a single downloadable chance at fun (however long the scenario lasts) is just asking too much of this consumer.

Hmm, now I'm sounding bitter.

The game contains 9 scenarios and a grand campaign, not only one scenario. It also contains another spiced up version of TAO.

[jungelsj_slith]

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck
The game contains 9 scenarios and a grand campaign, not only one scenario. It also contains another spiced up version of TAO.

Do any of these scenarios take place in any setting other than normandy? Is the grand campaign anything more than the other scenarios attached to eachother?

I'm just going off of what I saw in Korsun Pocket, of course. If I had no interest in the main battle, then of course I had no interest in playing only the western side, or only the eastern side, or only the latter half of the battle, or a 'what-if' spinoff of the main battle.

Whiking whiteout was great, though, and I'm glad I had purchased Korsun at a time after the main release when user made scenarios had filled out the content a bit. I definately got the $30 value out of the game through Whiking as well as some of the "Husky" scenarios.

I would not hesitate to buy this game If I knew that a wide variety of scenarios were included - variety in both location, size, and complexity.

[Rainbow7]

@molotov_billy,
by your previous message it almost seems that you are suggesting they take the free scenarios (from the users) and package them into something to sell. Why would you want this? There are already several free scenarios in the works for BiN. Check out the run5 website.

[Marc von Martial]

The scenarios are about the Normandy campaign of course, like the game name suggests.

We have:

- Breakout
- Carentan
- Cherbourg
- Falaise
- Montys Landing
- Mortain
- Omaha
- Rommel (´s Plan)

and the Overlord full campaign.


The grand campaign is the whole thing, not attached scenarios.

[freeboy]

Marc, how recent is that list, from the ssg/r5 folk we heard that there was no full campaign anymore, so Rob and I are both planning a user one????

[jungelsj_slith]

ORIGINAL: Rainbow

@molotov_billy,
by your previous message it almost seems that you are suggesting they take the free scenarios (from the users) and package them into something to sell. Why would you want this? There are already several free scenarios in the works for BiN. Check out the run5 website.

Hi Rainbow

My frustration is simply the price tag. I can understand a limited number of scenarios, if the price tag matched.

My suggestion was that the developers worked with the scenario designers to get their scenarios ported over to the new engine, in order to flesh out the content of the game. They did this with a patch to Korsun pocket, if I remember correctly?

If some of the user made scenarios had been included with Battles in Normandy, I would not hesitate to buy it - even considering the fact that I've played those scenarios already.

[jungelsj_slith]

The grand campaign is the whole thing, not attached scenarios.

Hmm, I guess I could argue that... nevermind I'll let it rest. I don't want to discourage anyone else from buying the game, because I want games like this to keep being made

I will just say that I hope the content of the next game matches the price tag. I have no doubt that the engine is incredible, but if I'm not particularly fond of this battle in history, all of that value is lost.

[freeboy]

All the user made scenarios that we as a community PORT over to this new engine will be available for a free download.. fyi.. They, SSG, cannot include what hasn't been done, and these user made scenarios cannot be changed to BIN without access, so your request to have them included is not really one SSG could complete, nor should it stop you from getting it as many of these will be re-released...
If its just about price, think of it as 25 games.. I bet there are at least that many scenarios available for "free" to owners of BIN this time next year...

And the biggest selling point, it is a great pbem engine, I used to regularly kick the ia, now good players are a challenge..

[jungelsj_slith]

ORIGINAL: freeboy
They, SSG, cannot include what hasn't been done, and these user made scenarios cannot be changed to BIN without access, so your request to have them included is not really one SSG could complete, nor should it stop you from getting it as many of these will be re-released...

That's not true, this is something that is very possible, especially for a smaller company that can't mass produce content like other developers can. It's something that has been done and will continue to be done with other games.

I think the point here is that BiN should stand as a worthwhile product on it's own. Something is not right when a game doesnt live up to it's value unless the players create large sections of content to fill out the game.

Scenarios of a single battle may be enough for alot of people, and I hope it is. I hope that the product sells well at $60. I can't spend $60 on a game where I may or may not enjoy the single battle. I will have to wait for said scenarios to come out.

[Marc von Martial]

ORIGINAL: freeboy

Marc, how recent is that list, from the ssg/r5 folk we heard that there was no full campaign anymore, so Rob and I are both planning a user one????

I took that list from the game's scenario menu.

Well the "Overlord" campaign is 32 days with "lot´s of units" involved (as per SSGs description [;)] )

[ggallagher]

I think the confusion here is the difference in the Overlord Campaign, and the Cobra scenario. Previous info from SSG led you to belive that both were more or less co-equal campaigns. I think that now Overlord is the Normandy Campaign that brings you up to (but not including) Cobra, with the latter being a separate scenario of less scope than the Overlord Campaign.

[freeboy]

yep, 32 half days is the overlord, there was talk of a giant campaign being included, but thankfully they didn't try to add this or we wouldn't see this till even later!
GO BIN

[Ron]

I agree the price at $60 US seems a little high compared to other games, but I doubt if trying to raise the issue here will change anything with Matrix. As others have said 'vote' with your pocket book and simply don't buy it if you feel that strongly. That's the only way to send a strong message. Obviously Matrix feels it is right and they have a better idea than the rest of us based on previous experience.

I concur with marc420. I purchased KP and ATD this year and I will buy BIN, but probably nothing else in the forseeable future. Money is a concern yes, but also time as I know I will get a lot of gaming from BIN.


Ron

[mbMike]

I will make sure the positive reviews far outweigh the negative reviews before I buy. I fully expect to be buying BiN, but I don't operate on blind faith with any video game maker.

[Fred98]

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

Joe, that includes the costs of shipment and storage in store, merchandising ets etc etc.....

Wouldn't you kind of expect a discount to the consumer.....in the case of a download

Yes of course. And there is. Obviously the sales will be a pittance compared to Doom 3 and yet the price will be the same. The price should be higher than Doom 3. The savings is because of the digital download

[Fred98]

ORIGINAL: mbMike

I will make sure the positive reviews far outweigh the negative reviews before I buy......I don't operate on blind faith .........

The predecessor games in the series, were The Ardennes Offensive 2 “TAO2” and Korsun Pocket “KP”

TAO2 is a free download and only runs on WIN 98

I play/played both games and both are excellent.

I know BIN too will be excellent because I am a fanboy ( [:D] ) of the series.

It is not a question of reviews – its a question of whether you like the genre
-

[Hertston]

ORIGINAL: Sarkus

In addition, two other issues come to mind in response to some of the comments above. First, I don't buy the "gamers demand better graphics" argument. While it's true that BiN is more graphically advanced than many past wargames, I really doubt that it required the level of graphics modeling skill of something like Combat Mission, let alone a mainstream title. Wargames are still produced with relatively tiny development teams, so it's not like the cost has risen like it has with other types of games. Too argue that the price must go up to compensate strikes me as flawed.

Flawed it certainly is. It's actually the "casuals" and newcomers most likely to be put off by the price who are likely to be influenced by the graphics. The "$100 is cheap" brigade are far less likely to bother. I'm not in that catagory, but while KP looks better than the HPS games I still play them as often as KP.



$10 too much IMHO, which is why I'm still humming and haa-ing rather than putting my credit card on standby. That said, I know myself well enough to realise $10 will seem very insigificant once "BiN released" goes up on the front page ! [:D]

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

Obviously the sales will be a pittance compared to Doom 3 and yet the price will be the same.

You need to shop around... you can pick up D3 for half what BiN will cost. "Shopping around", of course, is something you can't do with digital downloads. Indeed there are some around here who seem to think doing so for retail boxes is only one step removed from piracy !

[elmo3]

WITP was a "maybe" for me until I saw the price. It went off the radar at that point. BIN was a "must buy" for me until seeing the price. Now it is in the "maybe" category. I'll need to see some solid reviews and watch the forums for a while. These prices are at my upper limit for entertainment. If upcoming titles (particularly GGWAW, COA, and Command Operations) are in the same price range then it will mean tougher choices and fewer purchases for me.

[Rubblestone]

[:(] I was really looking forward to geting this game, but at this price I just cant justify it right now, so this game will go into my 'maby in the future' category... unfortunantly I rarely ever get to those games

[mbMike]

It is not a question of reviews – its a question of whether you like the genre

Fortress Europe.