A Kinder, Gentler Betio

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Sat Jun 03, 2000 6:14 pm

Who says we're not listening?

I've heard the cries of anguish from the bloody beaches of Betio.

You'll find version 2.0 now in the Game Depot of SPWAW.

The bunkers, etc., have been toned down, a little easier to kill, not much, but a little bit.

The LVTs now protect their cargo and the Marines don't jump out at the sound of a rifle.

Aircraft are slightly more effective. Its still, however, a long walk in from the reef.

Not easy, but winnable.

Wild Bill

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Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

Arralen · Post by **Arralen** » Sat Jun 03, 2000 6:24 pm

Originally posted by Wild Bill:

The bunkers, etc., have been toned down, a little easier to kill, not much, but a little bit.

The LVTs now protect their cargo and the Marines don't jump out at the sound of a rifle.

Aircraft are slightly more effective.

Modfifying bunkers - no problem.

Tuning aircraft stats ... I know how to do it.

But how the **** did you change the games behaviour about the APC ? ? ? ?

Arralen

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Sat Jun 03, 2000 6:47 pm

An earlier build had the Amtracs listed as the type of vehicle that required troops to ride on top.

A later build corrected that (It was an OOB error, not a bug).

I did not know of this and did not replace the older Amtracs with the newer ones when the OOB were corrected.

So the Saved scenario retained the older "ride on top" status.

That is why they were jumping off so quickly. They had no protection. They were more vulnerable to enemy fire "on" the vehicle than they would be in the water.

Now they are considered "in" an AFV instead of "on" it, and will choose to stay there, since they have some protection.

Now if the Amtrac should become suppressed or is killed, yes, they will come out.

But what you won't see is everybody jumping out the first time the amtrac takes fire.

Thanks for asking Arrelen...WB

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Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

victorhauser · Post by **victorhauser** » Sat Jun 03, 2000 11:58 pm

Betio Visited...

Normally I don't play many scenarios since I prefer campaigns. But the outcry against fortifications has made me curious and I'm gonna try this one. My settings will be all realism buttons ON, all my (I'll be the Marines) percentages =100% or defaults, all Japanese percentages =100% or defaults except that Japanese infantry toughness =250%. The AI will be left at 0. Note that these are much lower values than I normally give the computer, but I want to get a feel for what is causing such an outcry against forts. I'll report my results immediately following the game...

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Sun Jun 04, 2000 2:36 am

Victor, don't make those Japanese any tougher than they are...at least I wouldn't

They are some pretty tough cookies already. Also, command control does not work well in this one.

The Marines who landed (as I am sure you know) were totally disorganized and working independently. This is best reflected with C&C turned off.

At least you can get on the beaches now

Wild Bill

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Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

victorhauser · Post by **victorhauser** » Sun Jun 04, 2000 6:07 am

Now I See...

By liberal use of smoke I was able to get ashore without great difficulty. However I quickly discovered what all the fuss was about when my 6 raider squads tried to tackle the IG fort at the NW corner of the island. I tried my usual tactic of supressing the fort and then assaulting from the rear. And here is the rub. It made no difference whether the fort was ready, pinned, retreating, or routing, or whether I was assaulting from any direction (I even tried from the front during a later turn to see if it made a difference)--I kept getting the same assault-success chances no matter what. As I recall, in SP3 when you assaulted a fort, you got a steadily increasing chance to succeed based on the suppression level of the fort. But that's evidently not the case in SP:WaW (or Betio island at least). I was playing the original 1.0 version of Betio. But my guess is that while the assault-success chances might be a bit higher in version 2.0, those values will remain constant as per version 1.0. I had no complaint with low chances (especially when the fort is only pinned or ready), but I really think the chances for a successful assault should improve noticeably when the fort is retreating and be even higher when the fort is routing. I'm gonna try version 2.0 now and see what I can see.

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Sun Jun 04, 2000 6:57 am

I did not check those percentages so I would appreciate that report, Victor. I do know they are easier to kill than before..not much, but a little...WB

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Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

Dean Robb · Post by **Dean Robb** » Wed Jun 07, 2000 5:43 am

I think part of the issue with a lack of increasing assault chances is that the Japanese don't rout. During their turn, it may SAY "routing" or "retreating", but it goes back to (at best) "pinned" on the human turn.

Use the LCP's (LCTs?).50 cals on the shore defenses, too. I took out the southern cave with them :>

It's a great scenario, though, Bill! A real bear. It did teach me a valuable lesson, too. Once you get past a bunker, cave, etc...leave it alone if you can. It's no longer a threat to you and can get just too expensive to try to knock out, especially in turns.

[This message has been edited by Dean Robb (edited 06-06-2000).]

Bing · Post by **Bing** » Wed Jun 07, 2000 6:05 am

It's a great scenario, though, Bill! A real bear. It did teach me a valuable lesson, too. Once you get past a bunker, cave, etc...leave it alone if you can. It's no longer a threat to you and can get just too expensive to try to knock out, especially in turns.
Dean Robb
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I'll second Dean's commentary here: Bypassing a dugout or bunker has helped me achieve a victory or two I wouldn't have gotten if I hung up the troops blasting away at the fortifications. Their FOV is pretty limited anyway.

Byron Inglesh

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Wed Jun 07, 2000 6:19 am

A very good strategy guys. No need to get hung up there unless there is no way around. Unfortunately, as on the real island battle you get past one and run into another.

You played well because interlocking fire on Betio can decimate you very quickly.

You know you can release the men inside a bunker by clicking on it and then typing a 9.

It would be interesting if the AI pulled that one and came out shooting from behind you...but I digress.

Thanks, fellas! I appreciate the reports and the strategies.

Wild Bill

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Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games