To Vichy, or not to Vicy

[Cheesehead]

I'm playing the Axis in my first 'Global War' campaign game. Turn one commences in October. I've read with interest the recent thread on Gibralter. IMHO taking Gibralter is only feasible through Spain. To conquor Spain, you need to delay Vichy until you get your army into position at which point you may ask, "should I forget Vichy and go for the incomplete conquest?" This should not be difficult with the overwhelming force you will already have in France. But is it wise? It seems to me that the advantages in not declaring Vichy are:
1. An extra factory and resource in Vichy
2. Use of major ports in S. France.
3. Easy access to Spain and Gibralter

The disadvantages:
1. French Navy adds their weight to the Allied cause.
2. Further delay in finishing off France, Spain and Gibralter. This delay might push back your campaign in the East until 1942.

What are the implications for simply delaying a Vichy declaration until I get troops into Spain?

Being new at this game (my opponent is not) I could use all the help I can get in making what seems to me to be a critical question for the Axis.
Thanks for any advice.

[YohanTM2]

Since you are new to the gamer I would recommend a historical approach to the Axis effort. Pull a Vichy and build like crazy for Russia!

[vonpaul]

you've pretty much well summed it up but include for disadvantage;
3. all the french empire (and the units it gets out of France) goes free as opposed to the potential of Vinchy

Also before you go rushing through capturing all the factories in France pay consideration to the fact that if over half the factories in a Major powers home country are conquered it can surrender. This means no Vichy

[Mziln]

[:)] Just remember to take into account... [:)]

When Vichy is installed they are rolled for individualy
Indo-China will be Free-French 20% of the time.
Madagascar will be Free-French 30% of the time.
Syria will be Free-French 20% of the time.

Iraq
A neutral Iraq must supply France with 1 of its oil resources each turn. If France is conquered, or if a Vichy government has been installed (see 17.1), Iraq instead provides the oil to whichever major power or minor country controls Syria. A Vichy-controlled Syria will pass it on to the major power that installed a Vichy Government.

Japanese Entry Actions

Japan occupies Indo-China - Japan aligns French Indo-China (1 resource)
but only if it is a Vichy territory (see 17.2) and there are no Allied units there. Japan does this by announcing the occupation during an Axis declaration of war step. Move any Vichy units in French Indo-China to the Free French force pool.

All hexes in French Indo-China immediately become Japanese controlled.
U.S.A. entry action 1 chit and 20% for another.

Japan occupies Madagascar - Japan aligns Madagascar
but only if it is a Vichy territory (see 17.2) and there are no Allied units there. Japan does this by announcing the occupation during an Axis declaration of war step. Japan must have aligned French Indo-China (see entry action 1) in a previous turn. Move any Vichy units in Madagascar to the Free French force pool.

All hexes in Madagascar immediately become Japanese controlled.
U.S.A. entry action 1 chit and 50% for another.

[Cheesehead]

So it is not a question of whether to declare Vichy, it is only a matter of when to declare Vichy. Thank you.

[Mziln]

[:D] Nope, you don't "have" to create Vichy France. But it makes things eaiser and quicker. [:D]

17. Vichy France

The Axis may be in a position to install a Vichy French government before France is conquered.

17.1 Creation

An Axis major power can choose to install a Vichy Government if one of its in-supply land units occupies Paris in a peace step and France is not conquered. If more than one Axis major power occupies Paris, then Germany has fi rst choice as to whether it wishes to establish a Vichy government.

If you install a Vichy government, Metropolitan France itself is divided into 2 countries - Metropolitan Vichy France (including Corsica if still French controlled) and Occupied France. A line on the map marks the border. The capital of Metropolitan Vichy France is Vichy. Paris remains the capital of Occupied France.

(continued)
From the game screen menu bar select "Tools" and then "Rules". Be sure to get a copy of Adobe Acrobat to read the rules and charts.

(Link) I got my Adobie demo copy from tucows. (Link)

[YohanTM2]

ORIGINAL: Cheesehead

So it is not a question of whether to declare Vichy, it is only a matter of when to declare Vichy. Thank you.

Yep, except for some pretty rare circumstances. I would say out of maybe 50+ games of WiF I have only seen no Vichy in 2 that I can remember. One went in Germany's favor as they had very quickly destroyed France and won the game easily. The other one was a quick France as well but the German got bogged down, had to do Russia '42 (which is not always a bad option) and got toasted.

[Irish Guards]

Watch factory rule 50% controlled .. they can surrender

means Vichy

All I want is .. good board

Irieh Guards

[&o]

[Droop21]

If I understand the rules correctly, surrender means incomplete conquest, not Vichy.

I've never gone for conquest (always go for the bear), but I think that not setting up Vichy can be useful in an early Med strategy (i.e. you want to capture Gibraltar). You get access to French North Africa (as you are at war with that power) which otherwise is likely to belong to neutral Vichy. It is critical to base planes to isolate Gibraltar and paradrop on it without declaring war to Spain/having marched through it.

In addition, you have side benefits:
- until liberation, France does not cooperate with the Commonwealth (only with the US when at war with the EuroAxis) which limits the usefullness of French troops
- you get a chance to capture French naval units on the production circle (can be useful if the Royale was mauled, especially for the carrier and the new BBs)

As Allied, I always make sure I have some garnison in Lyon or Toulouse to avoid conquest.