So, how are your games going?

Erik Rutins · Post by **Erik Rutins** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 6:55 pm

I know there are a lot of copies out there since yesterday - have you finished any scenarios yet? How are things going? Any favorite new features or battles yet?

Regards,

- Erik

Capitaine · Post by **Capitaine** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:23 pm

I started out playing the "Overlord" scn as the allies [:'(] and it is really tough going at around turn 6. I mean it's a war of inches. I'm trying to exploit open areas where Jerry is thin, but I keep outrunning my vestigal supply network. Very tough.

It's my third stab, having restarted twice after learning nuances that materially change the game in the amphibious area. Finally have a feel for what matters in amphib. landings.

2gaulle · Post by **2gaulle** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 8:00 pm

I have redo many time the 3 first turn as allied

Capitaine · Post by **Capitaine** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 8:33 pm

Finally managed to punch into Carentan on turn 7, and then the dreaded Mud hits, and everything's gotten real slow. Best actual progress is in the East toward Cherbourg. Brits completely stymied as they are facing tons of SS and Panzertruppen.

Not many units getting K.O.'d in my game, mainly damaged. I pull mine back, but some of the German 2-step units have fallen.

TheHellPatrol · Post by **TheHellPatrol** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 9:04 pm

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
How are things going? Any favorite new features yet?

Regards,

- Erik

Yes, the Alt/Magnifying key[;)] and the help button to find/cycle thru units with certain abilities eg:bridge layer makes it much easier to formulate a plan[8D].

ioticus · Post by **ioticus** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 9:13 pm

How's the AI? I read a post (that mysteriously disappeared) on the Run5 forums about someone who played the Bloody Omaha scenario as the Allies and took the beaches with no casualties! He also stated the German AI retreated in the bocage after he landed. Doesn't bode well at all.

benpark · Post by **benpark** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 9:20 pm

AI is putting up an impressive fight so far for me (turn 4, the big one). I'm going to restart, in fact![:'(]

Capitaine · Post by **Capitaine** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 9:23 pm

How much loss you incur depends on how aggressive you are in landing. There isn't necessarily a big battle against divisional units on the beach, it's more like the Allies are up against a host of strongpoints that cause attrition losses upon landing. That can be a LOT.

Were you to delay your landing a couple of days, your armada could conceivably clear most of the strongpoints to minimize losses. Nevertheless, I guarantee you don't get far from the beach before you meet the enemy's formed units. And if you delay too much, the enemy will be in much better position around the objectives. I find this realistic.

2gaulle · Post by **2gaulle** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 9:32 pm

How much loss you incur depends on how aggressive you are in landing. There isn't necessarily a big battle against divisional units on the beach, it's more like the Allies are up against a host of strongpoints that cause attrition losses upon landing. That can be a LOT.

with your fleet you must be able to clear enought strongpoint before the landing.
Now I'm able to land nearly anywhere without a loss. in fact not, generaly I loose 1 or 2 art unit at Omaha

JSS · Post by **JSS** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 9:38 pm

ORIGINAL: ioticus

How's the AI? I read a post (that mysteriously disappeared) on the Run5 forums about someone who played the Bloody Omaha scenario as the Allies and took the beaches with no casualties! He also stated the German AI retreated in the bocage after he landed. Doesn't bode well at all.

Here's some good to know stuff on the AI...

There's three components to the AI you see in a given game:

1) AI itself as programmed is one component (its really quite tough),

2) the AI will look to directions provided by the scenario designer. These make all the difference in how the AI performs. Scenario designer assigns battle groups, deployment zones, movement corridors, defensive lines, etc... Scenario designer also specifies how the AI should consider various terrain (favorable, undesireable, NO GO)... finally the scenario designer has to issue orders by turn (attack, defend, etc...)

3) The player makes the final impact by designating weak, default, strong, or really strong AI.

JSS

Airborne82nd · Post by **Airborne82nd** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 9:56 pm

Played Omaha twice. Draw and a German marginal--ouch. (I was Allies). The first game took me a while to figure out how to off load my troops onto shore, so I spent about half the game in the water.

Started the real deal campaign as the Allies. On about turn 6 or 7. The British Paras didn't fair so well--sorry boys. Only 1 regiment left.

TheHellPatrol · Post by **TheHellPatrol** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 10:24 pm

[X(]I've seen the ai completely change the direction of attack and sweep around to the the opposite flank when i got too careless with by support units. I had a nice wedge of panzers defending Caen with a mess of arty behind them and as i built up the left they came all the way around the right and overran my weak side...DOH![:D]

Airborne82nd · Post by **Airborne82nd** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:47 pm

Had a similar occurance in my first Omaha game. I had (foolishly) left my L flank unattended and the Ai capitalized on it. Pretty cool.

e_barkmann · Post by **e_barkmann** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 1:13 am

Please note that Run5 does not censure posts unless they are of a personal attack nature. We welcome all comments and discussion about the game; perhaps the poster edited his comments.

Cheers Chris

ORIGINAL: ioticus

How's the AI? I read a post (that mysteriously disappeared) on the Run5 forums about someone who played the Bloody Omaha scenario as the Allies and took the beaches with no casualties! He also stated the German AI retreated in the bocage after he landed. Doesn't bode well at all.

theWombat · Post by **theWombat** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 1:44 am

Yeah, so far the AI has been solid. I got a draw on Omaha, but got whupped real good on the Commonswealth beaches. The AI will ruthlessly exploit holes in your lines, and send mobile forces into your rear areas to kill arty and support units. And it does react to flanking moves pretty well too.

Omaha is really a matter of how long you wait for the Navy to clear the strongpoints. The longer you wait the better shot of landing safely...assuming the Germans don't close in on the beaches. So you have to get some units in on the first turn IMO, and that can be bloody.

e_barkmann · Post by **e_barkmann** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 1:55 am

and once you've tried the allies, try the Germans and put the allies on AI control. IMHO most impressive to watch the AI storm ashore - tip though, try putting the option to Fast Naval AI (to speed up the bombardments) - and for the very brave, turn up the volume before turn 1 starts

Cheers Chris

kev_uk · Post by **kev_uk** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 2:07 am

Yeah, pretty good game, although I cant understand the complaints about the AI. Is it just me, or am I the only one who thinks the AI of SSG games is always compatant, if not damn good compared to other wargames? TAO always beats me, or at least makes me suffer, and its also nice to see yet another incarnation of it with BiN.

RobertRasmussen · Post by **RobertRasmussen** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 6:54 am

Hello

I've tried the Monty's Beaches scenario and it seems that the AI - in this scenario at least - is quite hopeless. I've played both sides and easily took Caen as Allies due to the fact that the German armor was busy killing or trying to kill British paras in the Orne bridgehead. I retreated east with my paras and the AI obligingly followed thereby opening Pegasus Bridge and allowing British unit to advance east of Caen. At this point really not necessary because I already had Caen firmly in my grip.

As the Germans it was easy to contain the Brits and I even managed to advance and destroy the supply beeachhead on Sword.

The AI might be better in the campaign scenario - I haven't tried that yet. But I must say that I don't really believe it. More units and a larger map doesn't really make the job easiser for the AI [:)]

A couple of things I noticed:
* The AI seems at times much to eager to attack and at others much to fearful. It attacked viciously as the Germans thereby losing Caen and as the Allies it tiptoed towrds Caen running into a solid wall of Germans. I know that the Germans are supposed to attack but this has to be timed and never be at the expense of security.

* The AI seems rather willing to spilt its divisions? I may be wrong in this because some of the divisions have a long divisional integrity radius, but it seemed that it was very eager to use single regiments a long way from eachother. Often a problem in TAO and KP as well.

This isn't meant to critisize the game. The AI in all the games I know is quite hopeless whether they are tactical, operational or strategic. It seems that all the advances are made in the graphics and gameplay parts.

To end on a positive note I believe the the DBWWII series of games is one of the only true computer WARGAMES out there. Where a lot of other companies are running wild with real-time, 3-D and and all this fluff, I sincerely applaud SSG for sticking with the traditional wargaming values and creating complex games where planning and precision are in the front seat. Thank you [&o]

Have great fun with BIN all of you.

Robert

Cliffor1 · Post by **Cliffor1** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 8:48 pm

I'm on my 3rd campaign game as allies, got slaughtered on the beaches the first game trying to figure out naval bombardment, then in the second game tried to screen Caen with the brits and punch through the center, well the AI let me go far enough and then Counterattacked in 2 places, sortied from Caen brought through my lines killed supply and arty and killed sword and at the same time pocketed my British breakout (3 divisions), it was very exciting, but learning from that started my 3rd game play cautious with the brits and the AI still comes out and smocks the poop out of me if I am careless, One thing I noticed is that the AI utilizes PZ Lehr at Caen and didn't it go to St Lo in real life? I think this is one of the best AI's I've played against...... and if you focus your shore bombardment on Omaha you can land with very few losses, but then the Brits take more damage, so it seems to be a trade-off...
Cliff

ioticus · Post by **ioticus** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:33 pm

ORIGINAL: JSS

ORIGINAL: ioticus

How's the AI? I read a post (that mysteriously disappeared) on the Run5 forums about someone who played the Bloody Omaha scenario as the Allies and took the beaches with no casualties! He also stated the German AI retreated in the bocage after he landed. Doesn't bode well at all.

Here's some good to know stuff on the AI...

There's three components to the AI you see in a given game:

1) AI itself as programmed is one component (its really quite tough),

2) the AI will look to directions provided by the scenario designer. These make all the difference in how the AI performs. Scenario designer assigns battle groups, deployment zones, movement corridors, defensive lines, etc... Scenario designer also specifies how the AI should consider various terrain (favorable, undesireable, NO GO)... finally the scenario designer has to issue orders by turn (attack, defend, etc...)

3) The player makes the final impact by designating weak, default, strong, or really strong AI.

JSS

Thanks for the info, JSS. Exactly how do the various AI levels (weak, strong, etc.) affect how the AI plays? Does it get die roll modifers or cheats at higher levels?

So, how are your games going?

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