Vent

[rroberson]

Yup, he's back...bitching about something in game. I'm ready to have one of my Captains drawn and quartered. So I spend several days gathering about 20 surface ships on a spot on the map in order to bludgeon an opponents invasion of PM. They are one day's sailing distance from PM(1.5 perhaps). I group the ships into one giant surface action group and I wait. The first uh-oh thing I notice is the captains leadership and inspiration are low. Yet somehow he is in charge of this little group. I send them forward into battle anyway with surface attack orders. (I also account for the fact that i may of overestimated their speed and they could come up a hex short of PM in which case ugly things will happen when the Japanese air gets a hold of them). The fact is, I have to engage the Japanese somehow so off to battle goes my surface forces. Well, they appear to have moved one hex and stop. <sigh> Despite the fact that the bleeding Royal Navy has ordered this group to charge into battle they don't manage to move more then 60 miles closer to the battle. Naturally my opponent's friendly air savages them and that is that. I expect to lose forces due to my dumb aggressive nature. But this is really just getting to be too much. If the water is going to boil with my sinking ships, why can't they at least pretend to follow the orders I send down? Just part of the insane frustration of this game. I'm so very tired of units disobeying orders that would of have them shot in war time. (I have a group of B-17s with decent morale and a good leader that have navy attack orders, sitting idle at an airbase for about a week, happily watching the Japanese navy steam back and forth in front of them in the same region, its the reason I got desperate with the surface forces) If you order an air unit or ship into battle, they bloody well should go into battle. No sitting on flight decks waiting for the next phase, no lolliegagging around waiting for the perfect situation...Unit A go here...go there....period. I think I'm about to strike my colors in this particular game.

Vent over, Ill go back to my corner now.

[Ron Saueracker]

One thing that gets me is how morale and fatigue causes air units to act in a democratic way. We should be able to set "conditions" for bases, so that the commanders are compelled to act regardless of morale etc if the "condition" has been set high enough by the player. War is hell and ya bloody well go when ordered.

[juliet7bravo]

Given the laundry list of conditions, checks, dice rolls ect. ect. ect., I'm just happy if/when they fly at all...WitP aka "Catch 22".

I can see how these factors could/should/did effect operations, readiness status, attack altitude, accuracy ect. to some degree. But barring bad weather and mutinious morale levels you'd think SOMEONE would fly from these units, if only the Cdr. and XO.

[rroberson]

I get how morale should effect unit effectiveness, fighting skills, supply...blah blah. It should not effect whether they go into battle or not.

[kayjay]

Did you order them into the hex or hope that their reaction radius would cause them to move ? I have yet to see a surface combat TF respond no matter what I set the readus to. To get a surface action I look at the direction that the enemy TF is heading and try to intercpet - if I happen to get in the same hex its about a 50/50 as to weather there would be a fight.

KEvin

[Nomad]

I completly aggree on the air units and morale. They should fly no matter what their morale is. They may not do well and some or many may not press home attacks, but they should fly anyway. And I do not really want to have to check each air units morale each and every day to see if they are going to do good. I would like to make a tier of orders, starting with the major command and then to the separate bases that indicates what level of effort they should be making and what are prime targets that override the general orders. Often you just want to bomb a base, both airfield and port but you do not want to overstress your units doing it. It would be nice to tell the base commander that instead of every day having to give orders to each squadron/wing commander.

In the same way, ships given orders should follow those orders. You may end up with a mess and a lot of damaged or sunk ships, but they should follow orders. Then you can only blame yourself. I hate having to rely on the 'friendly' AI to translate my orders.

[rroberson]

well i am fairly certain they were ordered to the hex ...go to PM attack ships. Now the mistake could of been that I didnt have reaction set (0), I did this out of fear they would get distracted on their way in and attack a minesweeper and not show up for the big party I had planned at all . No doubt it will be pointed out to me that the reason they didnt go to battle is because they had reaction set to zero...maybe...but they damn well should of moved then.

[freeboy]

reaction shouldn't have mattered in your example, one "cheat" or not, is to devide the tf and get a new tf acommander , then add the old tf to the new tf with the improved leader..
a bit gamey I'll admit but it should work

[Erik Rutins]

Rob,

As before, please post or e-mail a save that duplicates this and we can help constructively figure it out and (if there's a bug) fix it. I know that something vaguely related to TFs stopping a day's cruise away was addressed in the upcoming 1.30, not sure if it's actually the same thing that you ran into.

Regards,

- Erik

[rroberson]

bah! let me vent like a chick [;)] This isnt the first time I have seen this Erik. THis like my earlier carrier issues simply gummed up a major operation. (Ad-lib as it was). I use to see the same thing in UV where local AI would counter orders based on fuel levels, morale, etc. The only reason Im venting because it is frustrating. My opponent is also kicking the living crap out of me in game and having units refuse to fly fight or sail just adds to that frustration. Take a deep breath Robby its only a game [:D]

[siRkid]

Need more details.

1. What mission did you have the TF on? If it was bombardment, then that would explain it?
2. What was the speed? Mission?
3. Were they on Do not retire orders?
4. By any change did they stop to refuel?

As a side note, a Surface Combat Task force will only react to portect a base if the base is with in its react range and the TF is set to "Do not retire."

[rroberson]

ORIGINAL: Kid

Need more details.

1. What mission did you have the TF on? If it was bombardment, then that would explain it?
2. What was the speed? Mission?
3. Were they on Do not retire orders?
4. By any change did they stop to refuel?

As a side note, a Surface Combat Task force will only react to portect a base if the base is with in its react range and the TF is set to "Do not retire."

Please fly...please. You guys have only sat on the ground for a week...while the japanese navy rampages PM.

Understand this group is at a bomber base (3 or higher) I moved out everything else thinking maybe thats why it wouldnt attack the enemy. Instead their morale has steadly declined (they arrived in the 80s) I finally got so fed up with their inactivity I sent the warships in to at least try to challenge the japanese. THis happens alot...its my point that it shouldnt happen. With their morale at 50...they should not be effective, but they should be airborne.

[The Dude]

Maybe your problem is the altitude. It says your 17s are set for 5000ft. If i rememebr correctly levels takes a hit at below 6000ft. Maybe try setting to 6000 or above.

[Tankerace]

ORIGINAL: rroberson

bah! let me vent like a chick [;)]

To make a quote from the short lived Dilbert TV series, "Stop trying to solve my problems! I want empathy!"

[tigercub]

i dont know why you want b17 ta try to bomb ships anyway they would be lucky to hit yamato at port on a clear day 5,0000 ft with 99 exp still [:D][:D][:D][:-] ha HA

[Reiryc]

ORIGINAL: rroberson

well i am fairly certain they were ordered to the hex ...go to PM attack ships. Now the mistake could of been that I didnt have reaction set (0), I did this out of fear they would get distracted on their way in and attack a minesweeper and not show up for the big party I had planned at all . No doubt it will be pointed out to me that the reason they didnt go to battle is because they had reaction set to zero...maybe...but they damn well should of moved then.

Question is, what was their fuel situation like? If some of the destroyers had to use op points to refuel, then that will hold up the whole fleet.

I recall seeing some of them sitting in an ocean hex for a few turns, hence the reason I sent the carrier group over that way in the first place.

[mogami]

Hi, B-17 require a size 5 airfield (not a size 3) While they can fly from a size 3 airfield they will not fly extended range and at normal range will carry the reduced extended range load. Also B-17 require extra supply to be present in a hex.
How large is Cairns? If less then a 5 the B-17 can only fly 10 hexes. How far away is PM?

[Reiryc]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, B-17 require a size 5 airfield (not a size 3) While they can fly from a size 3 airfield they will not fly extended range and at normal range will carry the reduced extended range load. Also B-17 require extra supply to be present in a hex.
How large is Cairns? If less then a 5 the B-17 can only fly 10 hexes. How far away is PM?

11 or 12 spaces I think...

[dtravel]

This is the checklist for problems that I wrote up after I had similar problems getting B-17s to fly early in the war.

A Checklist for Land-Based Air

[rroberson]

ORIGINAL: tigercub

i dont know why you want b17 ta try to bomb ships anyway they would be lucky to hit yamato at port on a clear day 5,0000 ft with 99 exp still [:D][:D][:D][:-] ha HA

Harrasment. Plain and simple. He is going to take Moresby. Not really much I can do to stop that. But I do want to make it difficult for him. I do want him to have to use more assets there. Every day I slow him down I get stronger.