At this point I can only be amused.

[Ron Saueracker]

Take your SOCs off Naval Attack, Rob. They were not used for this anyway.

Maybe you guys should hang this one up when the new patch is out and start again. That way you'll have some peace of mind that the succesive builds are not wreaking havoc with your game.

[Mr.Frag]

LOL. In my game (the turn I just ran), 21 B-17s took off from Kiska, to hit the small Jap Island of Paramushiro Jima. Right now, Kiska is a size 2 airfield. Methinks that this might be an aspect of the game that may need to be looked at.

Naval attack and Airfield/Port attack and Ground attack all have different thresholds that must be met for an attack to fly.

[Tankerace]

I understand that. But from what I am hearing, it has been a level 3 airfield, BAR NONE.

Oh, and it was a Port attack. They only scored 2 hits, but it was a good morale booster for the folks back home. The 1st strike flew with 21 planes, the second with 7.

[Mr.Frag]

I understand that. But from what I am hearing, it has been a level 3 airfield, BAR NONE.

Nope, it has to be greater then size 1. Period.

The undersized field rule knocks off 25% of the aircraft flown AND reduces the bombload AND shortens the maximum range to normal range AND increases operational losses.

[rroberson]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

I understand that. But from what I am hearing, it has been a level 3 airfield, BAR NONE.

Nope, it has to be greater then size 1. Period.

The undersized field rule knocks off 25% of the aircraft flown AND reduces the bombload AND shortens the maximum range to normal range AND increases operational losses.

So why arent my bombers flying out of Cairns again? [8|]

[Oznoyng]

ORIGINAL: rroberson

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

I understand that. But from what I am hearing, it has been a level 3 airfield, BAR NONE.

Nope, it has to be greater then size 1. Period.

The undersized field rule knocks off 25% of the aircraft flown AND reduces the bombload AND shortens the maximum range to normal range AND increases operational losses.

So why arent my bombers flying out of Cairns again? [8|]

There are a bunch of checks that have to occur in order for the full group to fly. In each case, you take about a 25% hit if any one result fails. To sum it up, your B-17's are not flying for the following reason: the CV's are 9 hexes away with CAP up and you are flying out of a small, overloaded airfield with low AV support numbers, marginal morale, no escort, no Air HQ, and marginal search results for targeting.

[Mr.Frag]

25% reduction from HQ

25% reduction from airbase size

0% reduction from supply ( you have 2x base needs)

You didn't post your ops sightings so I can't get into that part.

no aircraft on search at the base

enemy CV's probably have high cap running (makes them unlikely to fly)

looks like CV's are 1 short of your maximum range (makes them unlikely to fly)

LBA checks (experience, leadership, morale) - each failed check = - 25% to planes flying

Targetting:

If target at extended range, less likely to pick
If potential escort is not enough against expected cap, less likely to pick


Weather abort (obvious one)

Failure to find target:

bad weather between base and target

greater the range, more likely
extended range, more likely
smaller the tf, more likely
further the tf moved, more likely

Need to see the actual turn to tell you which and how many factors got you.

[tsimmonds]

ORIGINAL: rroberson

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

The scout planes came from USS Chester. The attack was off of PM. That being said...I have no idea where the wildcat escort came from.

The Wildcats undoubtedly came from your CVTF, just as you said. They happily joined up with the SOC strike group. Fighters nearer the target will join bombers coming from further away. Bombers will only join if they are at the same range. So your SBDs were not eligible to join the SOCs strike. Should they have initiated their own followup strike without escort? Unknown. But it sounds like your floatplanes set on Naval Strike screwed you again. I'd go through my lists of land and naval based a/c and make certain all my floatplanes were set to Naval Search right now.

The lone CV I have is off lunga....the attack went down at PM....might be a bit of a range problem .

ORIGINAL: rroberson
But along the way i couldnt help but notice that there was apparently a light cruiser off lunga which my navy boys want to take a poke at....

I assumed this was the ship that was attacked. Or perhaps you are suffering from PTSD[;)]

[rroberson]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

25% reduction from HQ

25% reduction from airbase size

0% reduction from supply ( you have 2x base needs)

You didn't post your ops sightings so I can't get into that part.

no aircraft on search at the base

enemy CV's probably have high cap running (makes them unlikely to fly)

looks like CV's are 1 short of your maximum range (makes them unlikely to fly)

LBA checks (experience, leadership, morale) - each failed check = - 25% to planes flying

Targetting:

If target at extended range, less likely to pick
If potential escort is not enough against expected cap, less likely to pick


Weather abort (obvious one)

Failure to find target:

bad weather between base and target

greater the range, more likely
extended range, more likely
smaller the tf, more likely
further the tf moved, more likely

Need to see the actual turn to tell you which and how many factors got you.

right [:'(] it confuses me (not really) that me simply telling my pilots...the enemy is in a hex 9 hexes away. Go get them. Doesnt work. They have obviously been spotted. As we speak b-17s are bombing Europe sans Escort. No, I cannot send a full strike based on a number of factors (airfield too small, not enough support etc.) but it should really be that simple. Im sorry I make such a big deal about this point. But it is frustrating to have to depend on the AI to send ships into battle that I allegedly control, yet I have to account for every candy bar and ounce of fuel my units need to function. I either have control over my forces or I dont, and if its I dont then I shouldnt have to sweat logistics to the detail that i have to.

I still love the game by the way. Just trying to make it better.

[Thayne]

In my DAR game, I had B-17s sitting on Baker Island with orders to bomb Tarawa.

Nothing happened.

Turn after turn after turn, and the only use to which my B-17s were being put were as nesting shelters for the local bird life.

So, I put them on "recon". A couple of turns later, still nothing happened. But then, one day, they took off and snapped a few pictures.

I let them snap pictures for a week or so, then I put a PBY squadron on Recon to the island, and told the bombers to bomb.

They've been bombing away ever since.

Thayne

[Black Cat]

ORIGINAL: dtravel

ORIGINAL: Black Cat

ORIGINAL: rroberson

My B-17 bombers continue to remain on strike. Despite all my efforts to get them to fly against the enemy. I am completely bemused at this point. I did get to witness my enemy move betties and sallys forward to a level 2 airbase that I was bombing to strike my warships who were maurading off guadalcanal. So goes my frustration. I now strongly wonder just how screwed our database is. We start our game in version one and two patches later....[8|] at any rate here is some pictures...there are more to follow, for I believe I also got to witness the old scout planes preventing my carrier birds from flying syndrome again.

Your Aviation support is 28 Required is 37.

Your Support is 130. Required is 303.

Cairns is a Malaria Zone as well I believe.

Maybe that`s why their not flying ?

Support is for LCUs, not aircraft. Malaria Zone will increase LCUs fatigue but I can't remember reading anything about it grounding aircraft. AV support will affect how quickly the aircraft will be repaired if damaged, but as documented is not required for currently 'ready' aircraft to launch an attack.

It`s my opinion that the Doc`s are incorrect on many issues and that low AV support ( along with seveal other non documented " features " ) will keep B-17`s from flying.

[byron13]

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

I feel for you rob. In my AI game, I devised a magnificent plan, and I built up Kiska Island into a 3 or 4 level airbase, maybe even a level 5 (2 SeaBees, 1 Av Rgt, 1 RCT, 1 CD emplacement). I stocked it with B-17s. *In Theory*, they should be able to bomb the furthermost islands in the Japanese island chain. However, not a single plane has taken off yet.

I have the same problems with B-17s flying out of Wake, which (again, in theory) can reach Marcus Island.

I had the same problem out of Wake. Broke the unit down into three squadrons, changed the target to "port" instead of "ground," and they fly almost every day. I don't understand why they are reluctant to fly against ground troops from 15,000' but that, apparently, is part of the algorithm.

[Black Cat]

If I was a Ground Troop I wouldn`t want B-17`s supporting me from 15,000 feet[:D]

[Tankerace]

After Operation Cobra I wouldn't want bombers support me - PERIOD.

For those who don't know, Op. Cobra was General Bradley's plan to break out of the hedgrows in Normandy in July 1944. While the bombers plastered the German Lines (reports of US troops eeing Tigers flipped upside down by the heavy bombs), thousands of tons of bombs fell on the US lines, and killed and wounded several hundred US troops, and actually almost screwed the attack before it began.

[byron13]

ORIGINAL: Black Cat

If I was a Ground Troop I wouldn`t want B-17`s supporting me from 15,000 feet[:D]

Not if I'm in close contact in an area with no definable landmarks. And maybe that is the logic of the algorithm - I hadn't considered that. But attacking troops on an island 1,000 miles from anywhere is a different matter. In any event (and as suggested elsewhere by others) changing to port attack seems to work well for the heavies. And I'm getting a sufficient number of casualties in those attacks, though they may be REMFs and not frontline doggies.

[Mr.Frag]

Expecting Close Air support from a Heavy Bomber is about the same as calling in a nuke air strike while spotting the target.

It's something you only get to do once [8|]

[Reiryc]

ORIGINAL: rroberson

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

The odds of B-17's flying in an extended range roll against a CV which probably had cap flying without search and escort is pretty small. Thats a lot of negative mods to overcome.

I guess I am going to have to start learning to manipulate the numbers to correctly play this game. I actually have mixed feelings about that. I have always felt the point of a sim was to give you the assets and set you free. You shouldnt have to worry about what's under the hood. Bomber fly, ships sail and soldiers shoot. I spent a couple of decades playing board games like squad leader (or some of the SPI monsters) where you had to manipulate all the numbers and memorize giant sized rule books to play the game. The beauty of a computer is that you shouldnt have to. Ah well....at least I dont have to worry about my cat blasting a hole through my defensive perimeter.

I still would like to get someone to take a look at our database and see if it is corrupt somehow. We have been warned all along that we probably needed to restart after the first patch and we did not, and even though i can chalk up my bombers and the loss of my carriers to my own incompetance and lack of willingness to learn the gamey parts of this sim, I like playing with reiyc alot (he is a damn efficent emporer the bastard! [:'(]) but the 2 year committment to a screwed database is a bit much to overcome. I have had other things a long the way (like aks appearing in the middle of no where)....

Actually, I think our database is screwed.

I loaded a transport tf at rabaul like 4 turns ago with 3 nlf type infantry squads. Set the destination to dobrodura(sp). Well next turn, nothing is on the transport TF. So, thinking maybe I meant to do it but didn't actually do the move, I did it again. This time however, it seemed like I had less units at rabaul, but I wasn't positive and since I have a lot there, couldn't remember.

So I know I loaded them a second time.

Next turn shows up and they aren't loaded or heading toward dobrodura either. Shit. Load them up a third time and now I'm down to like 5 infantry type units on rabaul and I know I had more than just 5.

So, it would appear our data base is screwy. I'm still willing to play, but will restart if you'd like, maybe when the patch comes out.

If we decide to restart, you be japan, I'm tired of redoing the all the moves necessary to capture islands/bases at the start! [:'(]

[Mr.Frag]

loaded a transport tf at rabaul like 4 turns ago with 3 nlf type infantry squads. Set the destination to dobrodura(sp). Well next turn, nothing is on the transport TF. So, thinking maybe I meant to do it but didn't actually do the move, I did it again. This time however, it seemed like I had less units at rabaul, but I wasn't positive and since I have a lot there, couldn't remember.

Check that your scenario doesn't have Dobrodura set as a Airfield ONLY.

[Reiryc]

ORIGINAL: rroberson

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

The scout planes came from USS Chester. The attack was off of PM. That being said...I have no idea where the wildcat escort came from.

The Wildcats undoubtedly came from your CVTF, just as you said. They happily joined up with the SOC strike group. Fighters nearer the target will join bombers coming from further away. Bombers will only join if they are at the same range. So your SBDs were not eligible to join the SOCs strike. Should they have initiated their own followup strike without escort? Unknown. But it sounds like your floatplanes set on Naval Strike screwed you again. I'd go through my lists of land and naval based a/c and make certain all my floatplanes were set to Naval Search right now.

The lone CV I have is off lunga....the attack went down at PM....might be a bit of a range problem .

Your aircraft did strike lunga on the previous turn when I didn't have zeros there on cap. When I put up a good size cap, I noticed there was no attack from you the next turn.

I also assume my carrier cap is why your bombers aren't attacking the carrier tf and I also was flying cap over my surface tf from rabaul which covers the whole hex, so that may also be why they weren't getting attacked. /shrug

I had no light cruiser at lunga the next turn, so no idea what that was about, can only assume it was a strike around PM.

[Reiryc]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

loaded a transport tf at rabaul like 4 turns ago with 3 nlf type infantry squads. Set the destination to dobrodura(sp). Well next turn, nothing is on the transport TF. So, thinking maybe I meant to do it but didn't actually do the move, I did it again. This time however, it seemed like I had less units at rabaul, but I wasn't positive and since I have a lot there, couldn't remember.

Check that your scenario doesn't have Dobrodura set as a Airfield ONLY.

I'm curious, what do you mean set as airfiled only?