on the fence.....

[gts2096]

i'm still deciding on purchasing BIN.....has anyone here played Panzer Campaigns Normandy 44' by HPS? If so, what

would make me wan't to buy BIN instead of playing Normandy 44' ???[:)]

[benpark]

For starters, the AI in BiN is vastly superior to Nor'44. Secondly, there is little wait for the AI turn in BiN. In HPS titles, I feel like I spend a good deal of time watching the computer turns (even with "fast AI" on). The graphics in BiN are also immensly good.

Nor'44 has units tracked down to the individual man and AFV. BiN is a bit more abstract, but vastly more enjoyable (In my opinion...).

[freeboy]

Played both, and while I do like HPS system, they play very differently. BIN is a very palyable game, and lends itself well to strategy and pbem. If you want a challenge, get it and try some of the "heavyweights" from the r5 ladder. Also, with the scenarios offered you will get a lot of New ones, major campeign 72 turn just released.. etc
So are you satisfied with playing a more intricate albiet tedious Normandy44? great, if not get BIN and enjoy many other user made scens.

[Airborne82nd]

Time to get off the fence my friend. This game is awesome. Don't know about HPS Normandy, but if it is like Bulge 44--much different. The Ai turns are very quick. Even in the long campaign I am playing now it takes less than 10 minutes for the German Ai. My turns take much less than 2 hours.

Don't know if I'll win yet (on about turn 26) which is also nice--the Ai is good. Has made some mistakes, but so have I. I lost the entire 6th Airborne (ouch, that hurt) and lost the VII corp supply unit at Utah--that hurt. I also failed to link the beaches and take Carentan until around turn 15.

The Germans sometimes infiltrated through my lines with recon units and killed so arty units. (the ZOC rules are still baffling too me). They also left some arty exposed .
The Brits had a real hard time of it, and don't know if I'll be able to take Caen. The US is currently driving toward Coutances and St. Lo--not sure if I'll take either.

[marc420]

While I was waiting for BIN to be released, I was slightly desperate for some Normandy fighting. So I pulled out my old HPS Normandy CD and played it. I'd been playing KP for awhile, so going back to the HPS system was a bit of a shock.

I tried a little Omaha scenario, and found that trying to play that was really a shock after the KP/BIN system. Mainly just the tediuousness of having to fire every unit three times in a 2 hour turn. Then having to watch the AI do the same in return.

HPS is two hour turns and more detailed units. Combat is direct fire, indirect fire or assault. It feels more like something like Steel Panthers but at a scale of two hour turns and 1 km hexes.

BIN is more the classic operational wargame system. Attacks are odds based, so you scratch around for units to make a 10-1+ overrun attack. 1 day turns with 3 or 4 km hexes.

I find BIN much more to my taste. But that's just my preference. To me, the guys at SSG have developed a game system that stays relatively simple to play, but where the decisions you make have very subtle effects which combine to create a very realistic feel to the battle.

So, I'm playing BIN. And HPS Normandy has been uninstalled after the attempt to play it.

[gts2096]

Okay, i'm going to buy it.............for now prior to the patch, which side does the AI play better at? of course i'll play the other side. and i read somewhere that if playing against the german AI, set something to -1. what is this?[:)]

[freeboy]

you can udjust levels for supply and die rolls, or set a defualt from normal to +/- 2,
giving the ai more, or less, supply better or worse rolls, also can add to your side...

Interesting changes doing this and can help less experienced pbem players

[gts2096]

ORIGINAL: freeboy

you can udjust levels for supply and die rolls, or set a defualt from normal to +/- 2,
giving the ai more, or less, supply better or worse rolls, also can add to your side...

Interesting changes doing this and can help less experienced pbem players

could you give me some specific settings for the german AI. having never played this type of game before, your terminology is loosing me...(die roll, +/- 2). i will be digging into the tutorials tomorrow. [:)]

[Kevinugly]

Okay, like most wargames there is a 'random factor' in deciding the results of battles. In BiN and KP these are represented by virtual dice. The adjustment freeboy is talking about means that the results of the 'die rolls' are more likely to be in your favour. Does this help clarify the situation?

[Gregor_SSG]

ORIGINAL: gts2096

Okay, i'm going to buy it.............for now prior to the patch, which side does the AI play better at? of course i'll play the other side. and i read somewhere that if playing against the german AI, set something to -1. what is this?[:)]

If you want the strongest AI challenge, set the AI to play the Allies while you play the Germans in the Breakout scenario. The AI is best on the attack, and they'll do plenty of that against your overstretched German defenders.

Gregor

[ravinhood]

An AI that's a better attacker than defender? That's a twist. But, then again I think most all SSG ai has been better attacking than defending as I recall. It's just the reverse in the Combat Mission series, the AI plays a much better game defending than attacking, it's too predictable attacking and easily ganged up on and flanked.