Help needed, Burma front is collapsing!!!

[Caranorn]

I tend to try 4 defensive spots (Siam border, Kuala Lumpur or Mallaca, Johore Bahru and finally Singapore) in the Malay campaign (not including the Malay East Coast). Defending every hex obviously wouldn't work, withdrawing to Singapore right away without previous defensive positions shouldn't work either. Each of those defensive spots requires at least two to three fresh brigades and some fortifications.

In the end you will have beat up brigades of no fighting value at Singapore. Withdraw those to the NEI or India to rebuild and fight again later. Possibly even withdraw some additional battered units once Singapore is close to falling (particularly the Aussies and the 65+ experience Indians (a fighting withdrawal will give you good quality)).

And yes, the Burma and Malaya campaigns are closely tied together. Though in WitP the Japanese can actually pursue both at the same time which is unfortunate.

Regardless, fighting in Southern Burma should be only delaying actions. central Burma you should try to hold if possible to maintain the Road to China. But only the final line in Northern Burma and Southern India is essential, so you can give up Central Burma.

Marc aka Caran...

P.S.: Aren't at least some of the SEAC Chinese divisions actually western trained (Stillwell) units of respectable size? They definitelly should be used to defend the left wing of the central Burma line.

[mogami]

Hi, In WITP the Japanese have the
IG, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 15th, 16th, 18th, 21st, 38th, 48th, 55th 56th Divisons and 6 Bde to fight with.
The SNLF and NG units are only good for conducting unopposed landings or for places where defense is very weak.

No matter where the Japanese player decides to go he only has 12 Div and 6 Bde to use.

If he gives 15th Army 2 Div that lowers what can be used in the South.
The 21st and 38th Divs are out of play until Hong Kong is captured and replacement units can be sent to Hanoi.

(Historically 15th Army did not enter Burma before Singapore was captured. And then it was reinforced by 2 Div from 25th Army)

So Assuming 15th Army has it's 2 Div and the 21st and 38th are busy that leaves just 8 Div and 6 Bde for DEI, Malaya and PI.

The IG div is going to walk or has to wait for transport. It will almost always be used in Malaya.

Down to 7 Div and 6 Bde to commit where the Japanese player chooses.
It seems many people think the Japanese can just go where ever they want. But the truth is if the Japanese use fewer then 5 Div in PI they will stall. If they send fewer then 5 Div to Malaya they will stall. (unless the Allied player allows the PI or Malaya forces to be engaged piecemeal and the isolated parts destroyed) The trick for the Allied player is to prolong the battle at both Singapore and in PI to prevent the release of forces from one operation to aid the other.

Withdrawing from Singapore early changes the picture because it allows PI to be reinforced and 15th Army to be reinforced early. (This releases at least 4 Japanese divisions)
I don't think you'll find the Japanese advancing into Burma if Singapore is held in force. The Allied forces in PI if they gather at Clark can hold till the cows come home unless the Japanese sends 5 or 6 divisions.
The Japanese Bde can take most of the DEI but require time to do so and the Japanese player has to commit the bulk of his LBA and surface ships to escorting the transports.

This means in the Central and South Pacific he will be using SNLF and NG units. (And the South Seas Detachment) The Allied player can choose a few places to reinforce beyond the means of these units to take.

Most of the AAR I read and the PBEM I am playing only see rapid Japanese advance where there is also a rapid Allied withdrawal or the Allied player allows his forces to be divided.

(In PI it is possible for the Japanese to cut off at least 4 divisions if Allied player tries to hold too many bases. In Malaya 30-50k troops can be cut off in the north and never take part in battle for Singapore)

One thing that greatly aids the Japanese is the early withdrawl of Allied air groups.

In China the Japanese can do nothing but take a few advanced bases unlesss the Allied player commits the Chinese to forward defense. If the Chinese just back up to the second line the Japanese cannot mass the force to advance. They have to destroy a large part of Chinese Army forward to succeed at the second line.

Of course all of this is between two human players. The Human Japanese can jump from offensive too ffensive much faster then against a human Allied player who is fighting back.

So I don't think a generic blanket statment like "The Japanese can move too fast" is always true without adding "When the Allied player refuse to fight or allows his forces to be divided into pockets")

No matter how skilled the Japanese player might be he still only has 12 Div and 6 Bde to fight with. Once the Allied player learns what force is being used where it becomes simple mathamatics to calculate what force he needs in place to halt the Japanese advance at any particular point. The longer the Allied player can tie down Japanese forces the sooner he will meet his defensive requirements on the fringe of Japanses expansion.

It might be better in the long run to reinforce Singapore. Even if this only buys another month of combat in Malaya it ties down Japanese forces for a further month.
The Japanese air combat bonus wears out over time. Make it wear out over Malaya and PI and not over Port Moresby or Calcutta.
The longer you require the IJN to support operations the more Japanese ships will require refit periods (and be unavailable for future operations in other theaters)

Don't let the Japanese have a free hand and then say they move too fast. They do not move fast against a solid Allied defense. The DEI, Malaya, PI and China are not pushovers
but they do require a logical plan of defense. You have to pose problems for the Japanese not solve them. Removing your airgroups solves his aircontrol problem and allows rapid redeployment of LCU and concentration of Japanese offensive airpower. Allowing your scattered forces to be cutoff and destroyed piecemenal allows the Japanese to employ fewer formations in that area. Moving the Chinese forward and having a large portion cutoff and destroyed allows future Japanese advances. He does not need to maintain strength and many points but can concentrate more force for his future attacks. (200k Chinese blocking a road 180-240 miles form closest Japanese supply point is going to be an obstacle the Japanese cannot move. )

Just as the Japanese player needs a long term plan for operations at start the Allied player needs to plan and execute a series of defensive operations. He needs to pose an offensive threat where he can. (1 successful naval battle in DEI is enough to give the Japanese player pause) Forget about capturing Japanese bases in China like Canton or Nanning you need the units for defense else where but if the Japanese player advances a force that you can cut off and destroy do it. To do it you'll need a large reserve of units and you cannot maintain this by being forward deployed or advancing far to the south.
Make the IJA your target not any geographical location. I really don't see how the Japanese can enter India if the Allied player begins setting up the defense on turn 1.

OH well theres my .05 worth.

I can't get too specific about my Allied defensive plan because after the patch is released I have 2 very skilled Japanese opponenets who are going to begin PBEM with me. Once these games begin the AAR will show my Allied plan in practice. I only have 1 game as Allies currently and the Japanese player is not doing AAR on the game.

[madflava13]

I didn't see this mentioned:
The SEAC HQ is on Sri Lanka at start.. Move it to the mainland (I like Dacca or Jorhat) so it can help the infantry units build up - this will also serve to pull supply closer to the front. Otherwise it serves no purpose on that island...

[ZOOMIE1980]

ORIGINAL: PJJ

OK, it seems the best thing to do is to abandon the Mandalay area ASAP. I don't want to lose all of my units trying to hold it. However, since the units are *so* weak, I doubt they'll be able to stop the Japanese even near Imphal, as a one good Jap division seems to be able to beat several British/Indian brigades or divisions in Burma.

And the High command is not very generous with reinforcements in India...guess they don't want to give me any new troops for slaughtering! [:D] I don't need any new BB's, I need infantry!
Otherwise the King must soon say goodbye to his empire in Asia...

Anyway, thanks for the help...if I manage to lose the war as the Allies, I'll let you know! [:D]

Bring forward some troops and make a stand at Mandalay, but leave enough in forward Indian bases to prevent any rear guard silliness. Too late now for you, but I like to move those 9 Chinese Inf Divisions in Yunan attached to Southeast Asia to Mandalay on turn one. Hopefully you have building forts since day on in your front guard Indian bases and Mandalay. I am in 6 Mar 1942 an I have three nonChinese divisions (one UK) and 9 Chinese inf divs in Mandalay, some armour, lots of artillery and fort level of 8. 91 Avaiation support troops and the AVG there ready to hold off the Japs, who are arriving en-force from Malaysia.

He will still take Mandalay but by the time I fall back to Imphal and elsewhere, I will have fortifications built up to 5 or greater everywhere and some crack UK divisions beginning to arrive. I also have a pretty potent Britich Air Force building up in Dacca. He has to come across three or four hexes of trails to attack you in India, meaning he probably can't becasue he can't supply a large enough force to take you out behind those forts, especially getting bombed from Dacca and Calcutta....

[tsimmonds]

Hi, In WITP the Japanese have the
IG, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 15th, 16th, 18th, 21st, 38th, 48th, 55th 56th Divisons and 6 Bde to fight with.
The SNLF and NG units are only good for conducting unopposed landings or for places where defense is very weak.....[etc]

@Mogami: I thought this was a great post, I found it very interesting. One thing I am still trying to grasp: how can you include the 15th Division in this "available" list? It is located in Nanking, attached to China Expeditionary Army. It would cost 2662 PPs to change this assignment so that it could be loaded on transports. You do list the 55th Division, which belongs to Burma Area Army; instead of the 15th were you perhaps thinking of the 33rd Division, which also belongs to this command, and which begins the game marching along the (sorry, I cannot think of this road feature any other way) Ho Chi Minh Trail?

[mogami]

Hi, Yes it is 33rd Div. I was thinking of units assigned to 15th Army.

[tsimmonds]

Thanks again. This has helped me a great deal in further revising the latest revision of my re-revised GT1 plan.

[Nikademus]

so much for conquoring all of Oz and India.... [;)]

oh well....i'm settling on a drive for Dacca right now. why? jus cause. (i'm bored.....having defeated the AI in the SoPac)

[:'(]