What was the computer thinking?

[Grunty]

I will tell you why.... I just don't like people inventing (lying) about history and by that misleading others (which don't know much about the issue).

Just ask yourself: How can a AustroHungarian ship which surrendered after the war (in the port and territory which was by peace negotiations ceded from AustroHungarians to Italy) be a croatian ship? Just because a mob of some croats (in Italian territory, and also on a ship which would had to be left to Italians) proclaimed so? History is not to be taken so lightly... if so then soon there will be more claims (like new (nazi) theories that are comming) like that Hiltler didn't kill anyone in conc. camps, and who knows what more...[:-]

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Grunty

I will tell you why.... I just don't like people inventing (lying) about history and by that misleading others (which don't know much about the issue).

Just ask yourself: How can a AustroHungarian ship which surrendered after the war (in the port and territory which was by peace negotiations ceded from AustroHungarians to Italy) be a croatian ship? Just because a mob of some croats (in Italian territory, and also on a ship which would had to be left to Italians) proclaimed so? History is not to be taken so lightly... if so then soon there will be more claims (like new (nazi) theories that are comming) like that Hiltler didn't kill anyone in conc. camps, and who knows what more...[:-]

I am sorry but you have no idea of history regarding those parts of Europe...

What Italian territory!?!?!

Croatia was never Italian territory - only Venetian Republic held certain parts of Croatia during its expansion (but that was long long long ago).

The Italians were always just very very small minority on our side of Adriatic.

The sad part of WWI was that for Italian participation of Allied side (what participation and what accomplishments one might ask) certain parts of Croatia (kingdom that was part of Austrian- Hungarian empire) were given by great powers to Italy...


Also I always listed the following link if you are interested in "Viribus Unitis" and her 3 sisters:

http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/bunker/5294/main.html


Leo "Apollo11"

[Taiyo]

@Grunty:

if you are so into making history right, then you atleast should familiarize with the history of southeastern part of Europe before posting anything about it. First thing about Austro-Hungarian empire contained Kingdom of Croatia, Dalmatia and Slavonia. In the 16th century Croatian nobility choose Austrian king to rule over Croatia because of the Turkish treath. But Croatia kept its indipendence. Hungarian, Austrian and Croatian kingdoms were, at least on paper, equal. History does not show that, because Croatia as a small and almost insignificant kingdom in Europa wasn't considered a force to be counted on. The ship was part of Austro-Hungarian fleet. After Austro-Hungarian empire lost the war, the new country on the map of Europe, Croatia, although this new country lasted for about one week, put the ship under it's flag! from that moment the ship was a Croatian ship, and rightfully so because it was built in Croatia, comander was croatian, the crew was croatian... Hell, if the Chinese came and took that ship and put it under chinese flag that ship would be chinese! The ship belongs to the country whose flag is on the ship, right!? So, Viribus Unitis is a croatian ship, that was until the WWI Austo-Hungarian ship, because croatian flag was on it until the moment it sunk in the Adriatic sea!

but, still, u'r waaaaaay off topic!!!

[Grunty]

If the east adriatic coast is for certain Croatian and was always Croatian how come Italian vice president Finni just said last week in one of the interviews for Croatian newspaper that Istria, Rijeka (Fiume) and Dalmatia (all together almost half of Croatia) were always Italian territory... I think Italian vice-president in an official interview knows what's he saying, no...?

and for Taiho.... yeah , whatever (I'm getting tired of this).... so in your opinion Prinz Eugen was an american cruiser, right?...

[strawbuk]

ORIGINAL: Grunty

I think Italian vice-president in an official interview knows what's he saying, no...?

er... you not being paying attention to Italian politics for last 50 years?

I think also 'claims' is the missing word.

[Milman]

so in your opinion Prinz Eugen was an american cruiser, right?...

"Prinz Eugen" is American cruiser from the moment of capturing.

[Grunty]

well, to tell you quite frankly: I don't give a rat's ass if those regions are Italian or Croatian.... if you ask all those tens of thousands Italians which had to move after WW2 to stay away from atrocities of communists in Yugoslavia; for them those words mean a lot more than just claims.. they left behind properties worth of millions of $ and most probably won't be getting back anything.... but really .... this theme is getting nowhere... It's obvious each side has it's own opinion (like also Croatian-Italian opinion on adriatic coast), and neither one wants to change it.... who gives a ****! I'm just glad I'm not living in that beautifull but cursed region where wars will always occur just because every ****ing neighbouring country has a different religion, personal vendetta or some claims on the other... surely vacations there will always be on a risky edge.. unless you are some war-loving, mine-stepping enthusiast. Over and out...

[strawbuk]

ORIGINAL: Grunty

... surely vacations there will always be on a risky edge.. unless you are some war-loving, mine-stepping enthusiast. Over and out...

Another quality post on behalf of the Balkan tourist authority. Former Yugo tourist options up and running (and safe) for all those not watching Fox news for information. Go see and hlep spend some cash with people(s) and nations(s) we abondoned to their madder side in the 1980 and 1990s

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Grunty

well, to tell you quite frankly: I don't give a rat's ass if those regions are Italian or Croatian.... if you ask all those tens of thousands Italians which had to move after WW2 to stay away from atrocities of communists in Yugoslavia; for them those words mean a lot more than just claims.. they left behind properties worth of millions of $ and most probably won't be getting back anything.... but really .... this theme is getting nowhere... It's obvious each side has it's own opinion (like also Croatian-Italian opinion on adriatic coast), and neither one wants to change it.... who gives a ****! I'm just glad I'm not living in that beautifull but cursed region where wars will always occur just because every ****ing neighbouring country has a different religion, personal vendetta or some claims on the other... surely vacations there will always be on a risky edge.. unless you are some war-loving, mine-stepping enthusiast. Over and out...

Sure things Italians left after WWII - but what happened between WWI and WWII?

What about hundreds of thousands of people forced to Italianize their names?

What about tens of thousands of people killed by Italian Fascists?


So you see there is never simple (and one-sided) answer...


BTW, if you knew of Finni's interview (which was bogus BTW - he later claimed that it never happened) you must be from the area.

If that is the case (and I am 99.99% sure of that) you also must know that never ever a single tourist stepped on mine... last war was never fought on Adriatic coast... this is not Cambodia or Vietnam where thousands of people die every year even 10-20-30 years after the war ended...


Leo "Apollo11"

[Grunty]

maybe I have claims for something there too (or just good connections).... hehe...


BTW: do you know of a movie the Italians just made... it's called Cuore in la grotta (or something like that)...english translation ''heart in the pit'' where they talk of attrocities which happened to them from the communists and partisans during and after the war....
if you watch it, it gives you impression that Yugoslavia attacked Italy during WW2 and raised concentration camps for Italians...
funny thing this history...everyone seas it from it's own angle of perception I guess..

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Grunty

maybe I have claims for something there too (or just good connections).... hehe...


BTW: do you know of a movie the Italians just made... it's called Cuore in la grotta (or something like that)...english translation ''heart in the pit'' where they talk of attrocities which happened to them from the communists and partisans during and after the war....
if you watch it, it gives you impression that Yugoslavia attacked Italy during WW2 and raised concentration camps for Italians...
funny thing this history...everyone seas it from it's own angle of perception I guess..

Yes... I heard of that movie... it caused quite a stir in Slovenia and Croatia... (and yes it twists history for 180 degrees)...

BTW, I think we should end this thread because we departed very much from what it was originally...


Leo "Apollo11"