Engineers

[Galka]

Originally posted by pbear:


Yes but by 1943 (according to my source Almark Pub. Panzer Grenadiers) the 14th Company of a PzGrd Regiment contained an Engineering Company with 12 LMG's and Eighteen (18) Flamethrowers.

Yep, that sounds about right.



The problem still remains with the Pioneer platoon, not enough space in the formation for 11 units. So it looks like the only solution is two different engineer squads, one with a FT and one without. And assign one of the FT engineers to each platoon.

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Maybe I'm misunderstanding the point. If the FT teams were added on the tail end of a company selection couldn't they have their own category.

There are two problems here. 1. Engineers have no Panzerbuche for the early part of the war, then 2.
The amount of FT available to German troops rose steadily during the war.

Seems like an easy choice for a company selection.
Choose an amount of Panzerbuche and later, FT teams.

The teams are good for several reasons stated in earlier posts, such as they are harder to spot, but are easy to kill.

[Charles2222]

Mogami: The example you gave about MGs, was almost the perfect opportunity to plot reverse fire considerations, or at least that's how I think of it. What I'm talking about is DON'T FIRE. Let you firing come on the enemy's turn.

Here's the rundown:

I believe you said he had 3 units and you had a few.

If you fire, he will retaliate with every gun (and we know the AI is going to fire three not two times) he has, totaling maybe 8 total guns firing on three fires. 1-to-3 (and it can get as bad as 2-to-8 if you fored with only 2 guns and he fired with 8), not good odds.

OTOH, if you do not fire, he will fire on his turn. If Mg fires he gets maybe two shots, you fire back at that unit with two of your own (enemy down in units firing 1-to-2). The total guns firing likely find the enemy down 2-6. No matter what you do, you're better off not firing on your turn. IF you have only one flamethrower, it may be worth using it and not waiting for the enemy turn for opfire, but even that may be a worser tactic.

[Charles2222]

BTW guys, flamers with only two men in the squad would be very stealthy, and I doubt those HTH players would want legions of flamers marching about. However, if the flamers were made 1 size larger, as indeed I think they weren't the most graceful teams in war, they could be perhaps as detectable as a regular sized squad.

[mogami]

Hi Charles, Oh I know better then to fire, the problem was my squads disembarked right next to the enemy, this was enough to trigger their op fire (on my poor stacked up men) those MG's slaughtered my guys before I knew they were there. Then when I went to pop smoke to block line of sight from one the others worked me over again sending the few survivours hopping from one mined hex to the next. Of 14 Assault Squads and 4 engineers I had 3 left and they died during the computers turn. Fortunataly this was just a terrible incident to a much larger landing and it did not have a major impact on the battle. These positions were killed later from the rear after they had been taken underfire by naval gunfire and air attack. They caused no further casualties after this one awefull turn. But other MG's continued to knock squads moving only 1 hex at a time to pieces. (you know those 10 men move and 6-7 get hit by a burst-you can't see the MG so a recon team moves up and finds out it just moved next to a SNLF squad and it runs after getting clobbered.-those hide and seek periods where you lose 20-30 men before your motars can suppress the enemy enough for you to be able to move and kill them-then the whole process starts all over again only you have to use a new platoon because the first one is too shot up to go it again...........)

[panda124c]

Originally posted by Charles_22:
BTW guys, flamers with only two men in the squad would be very stealthy, and I doubt those HTH players would want legions of flamers marching about. However, if the flamers were made 1 size larger, as indeed I think they weren't the most graceful teams in war, they could be perhaps as detectable as a regular sized squad.

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The size should not change since the reason for two mem was to make them hard to spot so they could sneak up on the target, however decreasing their surviablilty would give the proper effect. This would make them hard to spot but easy to kill once spotted. Make them expensive and you would not end up with hords of FTs.

[panda124c]

Originally posted by Galka:


Maybe I'm misunderstanding the point. If the FT teams were added on the tail end of a company selection couldn't they have their own category.

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Only slightly, the problem is that you can not buy a platoon of Pioneers (German) with an FT(there is no room to add a new unit to the platoon). I do like the idea of adding the FTs as a part of a Hvy Weap Platoon, with the MMGs, to a company. Then you would have to buy a Company of Pioneers in order to get the FTs.

I use the Germans as examples because they are the most crowded OOB.
The following assumes that the MMGs are removed from the Platoons.
Engineer Company Heavy Weapons Platoon
3-MMGs
3-FTs

Pioneer Company Heavy Weapons Platoon
3-MMGs
3-FTs
3-250/1s

[Charles2222]

pbear: As I see it, stealth does come with a squad with only two men. So much the better that it isn't size 0 like so many scouts. IF, if having them in 2-man squads makes them more dangerous since they're more stelathy, than an ordinary full engineer squad, then would their price be at the present engineer level? Would that be enough points, if they really prove more difficult to detect than regular infantry? It does make me wonder though, if the 2-man team, in attack, would be a better flamer chance/effect than what we see with the full engineer squad, irrespective of stealth.

[Alby]

Originally posted by Charles_22:
BTW guys, flamers with only two men in the squad would be very stealthy, and I doubt those HTH players would want legions of flamers marching about. However, if the flamers were made 1 size larger, as indeed I think they weren't the most graceful teams in war, they could be perhaps as detectable as a regular sized squad.

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I made my OOBs to have the flamers with 3 men, some have 4, some 5, depending on country as I had to use whatever Weapon was availabale for their other weapon in that nations oobs. I.E.
kar x 3, M1903 x 3, type99 x 5 ect ect..

[V-man]

Originally posted by Tomanbeg:

DO NOT EVER fight an Engineer at 1 hex range.

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Yeah, BIG mistake.


T.(who is the only player to ever lose a game because he did something really, really stupid. Everyone else loses because the game is flawed, or their opponent is cheating)[/QUOTE]

Oh, I don't know about that. I do dumb stuff ALL the time. I lose a lot.

[challenge]

I have a half track (the squad ran and vanished) one hex from an Engineer squad of Velovich's. I figure he'll run out of fuel for the FT any turn now. <img src="frown.gif" border="0">