Future of games like WITP

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: ColFrost

Pausing a RTS game is not the same as turn based, because it still depends on dexterity. You still have to click the right button if/when you notice the enemy force closing in. It's still dexterity based, and some of us are not dexterity skilled.

Give me turn based every time!

RTS is for kids. They can be fun, don't get me wrong, but as ColFrost says, turn based is the big daddy for us real wargamers.

[sven6345789]

turn based, any time; I do play RTS games like the total war series, but when it comes to the real thing, turn based is better!!
GGWaW seems to be a good game, although i havn't looked into it much; will do that right now

[Spooky]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

RTS is for kids. They can be fun, don't get me wrong, but as ColFrost says, turn based is the big daddy for us real wargamers.

Most of the RTS games are for kid but GG's BOB/BTR are also RTS games [;)] and they are still real hard-core wargames.

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Spooky

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

RTS is for kids. They can be fun, don't get me wrong, but as ColFrost says, turn based is the big daddy for us real wargamers.

Most of the RTS games are for kid but GG's BOB/BTR are also RTS games [;)] and they are still real hard-core wargames.

Only during the resolution phase after all the planning is done, and then only for the defender. Basically a hybrid turn based game

[Halsey]

Real time? The only real time games I consider worth playing are IL-2 and Silent Hunter II. Can't wait for Silent Hunter III to come out! Online convoy duty, give me a Buckley to defend a convoy with! Nothing better than running down a U-Boat![;)]

All real wargames are turn based.[;)]

[steveh11Matrix]

ORIGINAL: ColFrost

Pausing a RTS game is not the same as turn based, because it still depends on dexterity. You still have to click the right button if/when you notice the enemy force closing in. It's still dexterity based, and some of us are not dexterity skilled.
Give me turn based every time!

Depends on the pace at which you play. I'm not dexterity skilled, or quick-reflexed either.
Steve.

[Bobthehatchit]

ORIGINAL: tanker4145

I think there's more young wargamers than you think. Heck I'm only 26, so definately a young'en to most of you. Of course, I don't know anyone else my age who has this game. But there are some of us.

27 mate... Got a number of younger friends who play WITP and UV as well, around the 23 mark. So this game is not just for older gamers, just gamers with a really interest in WWII and the pacific theatre.

[steveh11Matrix]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

ORIGINAL: ColFrost

Pausing a RTS game is not the same as turn based, because it still depends on dexterity. You still have to click the right button if/when you notice the enemy force closing in. It's still dexterity based, and some of us are not dexterity skilled.

Give me turn based every time!

RTS is for kids. They can be fun, don't get me wrong, but as ColFrost says, turn based is the big daddy for us real wargamers.

Precisely the reaction I spoke about in the earlier post. Also, I might add, my own reaction before I tried it. I still agree for non-pausable stuff - it can be made to work for tactical games, where 'real-time' really means real-time, but not for Strategy games. Add variable speed and a pause, and it works. Believe me.
Oh, and it would avoid the problem of TF's zooming right over one another...
Steve.

[Spooky]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

ORIGINAL: Spooky

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

RTS is for kids. They can be fun, don't get me wrong, but as ColFrost says, turn based is the big daddy for us real wargamers.

Most of the RTS games are for kid but GG's BOB/BTR are also RTS games [;)] and they are still real hard-core wargames.

Only during the resolution phase after all the planning is done, and then only for the defender. Basically a hybrid turn based game

True ... but I would rather call it a hybrid continuous-time based game [:D]

[steveh11Matrix]

ORIGINAL: steveh11Matrix

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

ORIGINAL: ColFrost

Pausing a RTS game is not the same as turn based, because it still depends on dexterity. You still have to click the right button if/when you notice the enemy force closing in. It's still dexterity based, and some of us are not dexterity skilled.

Give me turn based every time!

RTS is for kids. They can be fun, don't get me wrong, but as ColFrost says, turn based is the big daddy for us real wargamers.

Precisely the reaction I spoke about in the earlier post. Also, I might add, my own reaction before I tried it. I still agree for non-pausable stuff - it can be made to work for tactical games, where 'real-time' really means real-time, but not for Strategy games. Add variable speed and a pause, and it works. Believe me.
Oh, and it would avoid the problem of TF's zooming right over one another...
Steve.

Just thought of something - instead of thinking of them as RTS, think of them as Turn-based - but with variable-length turns... [;)]

Steve.

[Top Cat]

ORIGINAL: dereck

360
V For Victory: D-Day Utah Beach <== unfortunately can't be played with Windows 95, 98 or XP [:(]

Don't give up on the V For Victory series!

Got mine to work under Win 98 (with a bit of work, mainly tweaking lower 640K of mem and mouse driver issues)

Upgraded to Win XP and they still work fine.

My favourite one is Market Garden. The AI can give you a good run
for your money in this one.

Cheers
Top Cat

[steveh11Matrix]

ORIGINAL: Top Cat

ORIGINAL: dereck

360
V For Victory: D-Day Utah Beach <== unfortunately can't be played with Windows 95, 98 or XP [:(]

Don't give up on the V For Victory series!

Got mine to work under Win 98 (with a bit of work, mainly tweaking lower 640K of mem and mouse driver issues)

Upgraded to Win XP and they still work fine.

My favourite one is Market Garden. The AI can give you a good run
for your money in this one.

Cheers
Top Cat

Got that, and managed to make it work under W2000. Good game, although (my turn!) I'm not keen on the UI.

Steve.

[PzB74]

I quickly found that Norway was too small...impossible to find anyone that shared my wargaming interests. Ok, I know a couple that I play Steel Panthers with and another few likes to play simpler games like Panzer General - but when it comes to games like War in Russia, UV, WitP etc. I'm basically on my own.

Never even seen anyone else from Norway on this forum! Hallo?

Next month I turn 30 and I'm getting visitors from Germany and Scotland that I got to know through playing wargames on the net! I think that's great, I'm certainly having a hobby that's going to keep me entertained for as long as I'm around [:)]

I've managed to recruit a couple of players for UV - but my nephew that's 15 doesn't even spend 2 seconds looking at my wargames. "Høh, nothings happening! How long does it take to play a game? at least a month?... *leaves* " [8|]

So me thinks it'll be difficult to get new recruits young players for games like WitP in ythe ears to come. Everyone's playing real time games with fancy graphics and lots of sound these days. (I've not played WitP with sound yet, never bothered to turn it on after the initial problems.)

We're dinosaurs just waiting for the next ice age to come along and wipe us out!

The good thing is that on a worldwide basis there should always be enough grognards to create a market for some quality wargames. Think about all the people that doesn't have a high speed internet con yet - as they get online the niche market for wargames will get keep on getting new recruits for quite some time to come.

[RevRick]

ACTION STATIONS!!!! I really wish someone would update that game. The graphics (such as they are) are antique, the UI is abysmal, and controlling the few AC in the game is ridiculous, but the data are thorough, the concept is great, and the AI was a bear at that time.

It was a great time sweating out the tension of being in the Combat Information Center on a flagship in battle - usually at night. My favorite battle was Savo Island, followed closely by First Guadalcanal.

OH. Got interrupted... I am heartened by the young'uns (anyond under 30 now) playing this game. It will always have some interest as long as there are people who really want to understand this aspect of history - what happens when the diplomatic wing of politics fails, and why we should try to make sure that it does not. I know a few teens and young adults who really show interest in that. Unfortunately, most of our media and the schools are caught up in the current fad which relegates history to myth in the realm of the politically correct relativism. Chamberlain would be perfectly at home in the academy today, and probably in liberal politics. His spirit is pervading it. Most in the academy decry T. Roosevelt - but he was right. You can speak softly when you can resort to the big stick. When you don't have it, your alternatives when confronted with conflicts are basically three - run, beg, or pay tribute. I find those choices unpalatable.

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: RevRick

ACTION STATIONS!!!! I really wish someone would update that game. The graphics (such as they are) are antique, the UI is abysmal, and controlling the few AC in the game is ridiculous, but the data are thorough, the concept is great, and the AI was a bear at that time.

It was a great time sweating out the tension of being in the Combat Information Center on a flagship in battle - usually at night. My favorite battle was Savo Island, followed closely by First Guadalcanal.

Always wanted to try this.

[Skyros]

ORIGINAL: PzB


The good thing is that on a worldwide basis there should always be enough grognards to create a market for some quality wargames. Think about all the people that doesn't have a high speed internet con yet - as they get online the niche market for wargames will get keep on getting new recruits for quite some time to come.

Thank god for the internet and PBEM. I have played Pac War vs a guy in Baltimore and RFSTA with a chap from England. Would love to PBEM WITP but I am afraid I would not be able to turn around my turns fast enough.

Is Haugesund near Kistiansand? I was there in 1980, rugged coastline with beautiful green hlls.

[rtrapasso]

OK - maybe this is a different thread - but who is the oldest grognard here? The youngest?

I'll try for oldest for now - I'll be 53 next week. I've been playing wargames for c. 40 years, (depending on what you call a war game, if chess is included about 45 years)...


********
Whoops! About 30 seconds after posting this original, I notice there IS another thread. Not sure how I can move this over, though...

[Skyros]

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

ORIGINAL: dereck
Can you imagine how awesome a remake of Victory Games strategic civil war title (can't remember name, published in the early 80's) would be on the PC!?

Jim

I'm with you. It's called "Civil War," and it is about as good as wargame design ever got. The leader rules are without equal, and are, as they should be, the heart of the game.

This highlights a problem with computer simulations and the difficulty with keeping turn-based gaming alive for the PC. A lot of cyber-people think the future is in innovation and RTS. The real solution, for my money, is for developers to find the elegant, sophisticated solutions already developed in boardgames and create ways to adapt them to computer wargames. There's a lot of untapped wisdom out there, folks.

You should try Frank Hunters Civil War game that he is supposed to remake when he finishes his WWI game. I think the official name was Road From Sumter to Appomatix. I have been playing it for a long time and he supported it like Gary did Pacwar and Matrix does WITP. As a matter of fact he has two games on this forum a WWI and Napoleon era game.

[PzB74]

ORIGINAL: Skyros

Thank god for the internet and PBEM. I have played Pac War vs a guy in Baltimore and RFSTA with a chap from England. Would love to PBEM WITP but I am afraid I would not be able to turn around my turns fast enough.

Is Haugesund near Kistiansand? I was there in 1980, rugged coastline with beautiful green hlls.

Certainly is...about 250km north of Kristiansand. I know that, cause I'm finishing my degree at Agder College which lies in Kristiansand. Takes 5 hour by car/ferry.

Sounds like you described most of the west coast, here's a picture from Haugesund:

[Nikademus]

Warship!